Oddworld Forums - Is it wrong to eat Oysters?

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Originally posted by Gluk Schmuck
2. That's precicely why it's pleasurable to eat (certain foods). If you enjoy eating food then you will eat and, hence, survive and your genes will be passed on to the next generation.

Ok... ay. Let me rephrase that: Do you think eating is only pleasure and thus wrong? It seems to me a lot of people seem to argue like that.

As for only eating plants - so? You still kill something. No one can prove to you plants don't have feelings too, they may just be unable to express it. Your point?

- TyA

Originally posted by Lampion
What exactly is considered an unpleasant sensation? How do you catrgorize an unpleasant sensation? Isn't it another human concept? You could say that a stimulus causes unpleasant sensations if the animal tries to avoid it, because it can cause tissue damage. Could it be a just a simple response to stimuli developed through the evolution of the animal's species, comparable to how a venus fly trap entombs an insect?

An unpleasant sensation is defined by a sensation that is unpleasant. I can't put it simpler. It's not a human concept, but it is a human term given to describe what most in the animal kingdom are capable of experiencing.

The connection between the capacity to experience pain and whether or not it is right to eat them is an issue of morals, I accept that your moral code is different to mine in that respect. I didn't quite get some of your questions so if I didn't answer them properly, feel free to ask again. :)

Oroiginally posted by paramiteabe
The important thing here is that we all have our own individualtiy and if we don't want to eat meat and be a vegeitarren then all power to ya. Same goes for people like myself who do eat meat. We live the way we live and we eat the way we eat. It's a fact of life.

Would you have any qualms with me eating my babies, in addition to the babies of others?

Originally posted by pinkgoth2
As for only eating plants - so? You still kill something. No one can prove to you plants don't have feelings too, they may just be unable to express it. Your point?

Invisible unicorns might exist in the amazon, but until you have scientific data that can back up your claims, there's no point in using it as an argument.

Defending meat-eating with the "survival" argument doesn't work - the other vegetarians on this board and I are proof that one can survive healthily and happily without meat in the diet. Some of us believe that sacrificing the lives of other beings for pleasure is wrong. Survival and pleasure are two whole different reasons for eating meat. You'd need a damn good reason to be eating meat if you were doing it for survival.

Originally posted by Sydney
An unpleasant sensation is defined by a sensation that is unpleasant.

Ok, I thought my question was ambiguous, sorry. I mean: which of animals sensations can be defined as unpleasant? Who will define that?

Defending meat-eating with the "survival" argument doesn't work - the other vegetarians on this board and I are proof that one can survive healthily and happily without meat in the diet. Some of us believe that sacrificing the lives of other beings for pleasure is wrong. Survival and pleasure are two whole different reasons for eating meat. You'd need a damn good reason to be eating meat if you were doing it for survival. [/B]

I completely agree to this, Sydney. So, what kind of living beings are you refering to? Only the ones that posses meat in their body structure? Damn, this message board is really slow when you need fast responses. It would be much better if we were discussing it in real-life...:fuzblink:

Originally posted by Lampion
I completely agree to this, Sydney. So, what kind of living beings are you refering to? Only the ones that posses meat in their body structure?

Racists *winks*

I think plants have feelings too. *shrug* I've observed an interesting phenomenom: Two extremes are always the same in effect. The people who think neither animals nor plants have feelings eat what they get. The people who think both critters have feelings eat what they get, too - or, well, I suppose you could always commit suicide. v_v

I think I have made my point, Sydney. As to reply to:
>> Invisible unicorns might exist in the amazon, but until you have scientific data that can back up your claims, there's no point in using it as an argument. <<
I really don't see your point. I may not have a backup to say plants have feelings, but do you have one to prove they don't? *shrug* ;)

- TyA

Originally posted by Lampion
Ok, I thought my question was ambiguous, sorry. I mean: which of animals sensations can be defined as unpleasant? Who will define that?

The sensations one would feel while having a limb sawn off, whether they be human or otherwise, would be sufficient to call unpleasant. I guess I'm talking about the capacity for such unpleasant sensations as opposed to experiencing them being the criteria for which a being is judged.

So, what kind of living beings are you refering to? Only the ones that posses meat in their body structure?

Yes. I'm talking about living beings for who we have reason to believe can experience pain.

Originally posted by pinkgoth2
I think I have made my point, Sydney.

I don't think you have. Unless your point is that people eat what they eat, which was obvious anyway.

Originally posted by pinkgoth2
I really don't see your point. I may not have a backup to say plants have feelings, but do you have one to prove they don't?

My point is that you can say anything you like, but there's no point in using claims such as "plants have feelings" as a basis for an argument when scientific evidence points to the contrary. I can say with confidence that plants don't have feelings. Feelings are associated with the nervous system. Plants don't have a nervous system, so we can safely say that plants don't have feelings. Unless you have reasons for us to believe otherwise, why bring it up? You could spew forth any number of similar claims, but the burden of proof would always rest on you.

In my view, "pain" is a sensation that is felt by the body as an advace warning system, allowing it to react to a potentially damaging event. For instance, if you touch a hot saucepan on the hob with your fingers - your skin registers the pain, and the brain processes the stimuli as "this sensation I am feeling means the body will be damaged" and takes actiob to avoid the stimulus by jerking the hand away from the source of the pain (the hot pan). Obviously not everyone can react like that - drop a lobster into a pan of boiling water and it will feel pain, until it cook, but it's not in any position to go running away from it.

Any creature with a nervous system has the system for communication between groups of cells and organs. As an aside, "pain" is not like "fear" - fear is an emotion, and likely connected to higher brain functions, but until someone gets into an oysters brain and tells us that "no, oysters conclusively do not feel emotions" I'm not going to say anything esle about that. Pain, on the other hand, is carried in specialised nerve fibres (so far as I've been able to gather from my lectures in physiology, anyway - not oyster physiology, but you get the idea... ;) ) which can be seen and identified.