Please, guys.

I don't want to repeat myself so I'll phrase it a little differently this time: there's nothing wrong with torrenting.

"Torrent" is not synonymous with "pirate".

Crashpunk says you should never torrent an indie game, but the Humble Bundles have official torrents. Would he not use those?

Yeah, but you know what we mean. Illegal torrenting. And we're not going to say that every time we refer to it, are we?

I have watched one metric fucktonne of clips of things on YouTube.
I have pirated 1 Japanese movie.
I have pirated 0 TV shows.
I have pirated 2 music albums that I had previously owned but lost the CDs for (the only true justification for piracy in my eyes).
I have probably ripped about 30 individual songs from YouTube videos.
I have pirated about 3 or 4 video games, which is basically out of spite against the industry...

... Nobody makes demos anymore, because either they don't like the idea of spending time making something that's free, or they know that their game sucks. Well, trailers won't cut it with me, I'm afraid. Films have trailers, games have demos. Okay, demos are unbalanced anyway, I know that. But as a studio, that's your chance to impress me, take it or leave it.

Most of the time I'll just forget about it, but if the game looks really interesting, I'll pirate it, under a silent promise between me and adjacent items of furniture: "If I enjoy this game, I will pay full price for a legal version. If I do not, then there is no way I would have bought a copy if I'd known what the game was actually like, so the studio shouldn't have my money. Either way, I will delete the pirated version."

That's my 'demo'. So far I've had no problems keeping to that agreement. I think I bought 3 of the games and deleted the other 2 (which were buggy piece-o'-shit console ports).

Am I bad person? From a "theft is bad" standpoint, yes, yes I am. It's easy to criticise people's excuses, but everything seems much more reasonable when you have to apply it to yourself.

What Nep said. I'm talking about the torrents that are obviously illegal to download.

And you make a good point about the Humble Pack there Ench, I would use it.

I don't understand this logic. You don't 'try' out movies or films.. Once you've watched it, you've watched. There's nothing less to try. Whether it was bad or good, you're still morally wrong to not have paid for it.

I could maybe understand this logic with games that have no demos.


I don't pirate games anymore unless they are abandoned games and the original creators don't get profit from it. But I like buying games ^^ Specially physically. I should really stop giving in to the convenience of steam. I love having the game boxes on display.

As for the rest... I usually buy when I can >_< I'm the "I'll pay for it later" kind of person. But as it turns out that's not always the case :( Bad Nikki!

Oh.. when it comes to movies, my morals really go in the dumpster.

Does anyone really care that much though? When I download something illegally, which is quite a rare occurrence to be fair to myself, I don't really feel anything, but then I don't download much because I'll watch or listen on Youtube. The last thing I watched illegally, at least, I presume illegally, was Elfen Lied on Youtube, but the person I was watching with already had a copy, I just wasn't able to get to her to see it, but if I could have, I would have watched it for free, that's my shitty justification, not that I need one. If I want to do it I will, pretty much guilt free. Life's too short.

I go on the paradigm of: if its free, go for it. I mean, I'd rather not pay for something, unless its higher quality.
Basically I just don't have any money to spend.

Exactly, justify it however you like, but if I want something, and I can get it without trouble and without causing someone direct harm, I'll take it. Within reason, I suppose.

I'll just say that if karma exists, there's some bad shit coming my way.

Heh, I've convinced myself karma will fuck me up for the things I do, but really it's just the law of statistics isn't it? You do something bad and eventually, something bad is going to happen to you, then you might just apply the causation of that being that you did something bad. Hrmm, that really doesn't make much sense typed out.

With the fuckton of bullshit the large music labels are pouring down to save their outdated business model and their billions of profit per year, I am actually actively pirating. Not just because it's easier and free, but to give a big FUCK YOU to the entire industry.

I'm a big believer in consumer power. If you collectively refuse to buy stuff that only fuels a bullshit system, eventually the system will collapse.

Isn't that sentiment kind of meaningless because you're not sacrificing anything yourself?

I hope you dont let this logic harm the indie industry.

With all due respect, this is something only a teenager would say. Pop music has always been 95% shit. It's no different now than it was fifty years ago. But supporting music you like by buying it helps good musicians make more good music.

I know Havoc is mostly full of bullshit, but I believe in this case he’s referring to the business dealings and legal practices that groups like the RIAA et al are employing to protect their interests, not the quality of the music itself.

People don't want you to steal from them. Wow, that's weird.

People steal music from independent artists to make a catchy riff for their copyright adverts.

That's more weird.

That is pretty weird.

First off, there is nothing being stolen but that is a completely different discussion.

Second, when someone does 'steal' something, it's not in any kind of proportion to demand 30.000 dollars per track because that's somehow seen as 'lost revenue', and comletely ruin someone for the rest of their lives.

Third, the music industry is pushing laws that infringe on everyone's privacy and rights. Buying politicians and buying judges.

Fourth, the big labels don't want to admit that musicians don't need them anymore. You can become famous on your own these days and they obviously don't like it one bit. Youtube used to be a target for them until they got money out of it. Now everything else is a target.

This is an industry that will kill and destroy everything in order to protect their bottom line, and I won't have any part in that. If there's an independant artist not associated with this bullshit I'll happily buy their album if I like their music. Otherwise they can go straight to hell.

First off, yes there is. You stole an experience. Yes, you did.

Second, they charge you that much because you didn't just steal it, you also made it available for everyone else to steal it by downloading it from you. Yes, you did.

Third, they are at their wits end trying to figure out how to stop you fucking degenerate, dishonest scumbags from taking their shit. If I stole from you on a daily basis you would probably come up with some pretty draconian ideas on how to stop it. Yes, you would.

Fourth, business men don't want to be put out of business? Well, holy shit. What a fucking revelation. Yes, it is.

This is an industry that produces a ton of music that we enjoy, and would like you to please stop being a piece of shit, and stealing from them. If that were to happen they would calm right the fuck down.

You can't blame companies for trying to keep their arse in buisness

I've uh, pirated some games I have on console, for convenience, 'cus I've only recently got a computer capable of playing the newer games and I just find it all a lot easier, I still paid for the games, just not on this particular platform, would that be bad?

It's not as bad as just being a cunt who is actually self deluded enough to blame the companies attempts to get you to stop stealing from them for stealing from them.

I download most everything, including a lot of purchases. I'm one of those niche cases where the shit I really like is rare, old or not available for download otherwise, and the typical 'popular' stuff (god I sound like a hipster) I like is easy to acquire through torrents or whatever.

So I support what I want to and mass-download what I don't need to.

The correct way to deal with piracy is for all the labels/studios/companies supplying all of their product through subscription based services, like iTunes and netflix rolled into one, and have the value of extra content or information available through the subscription outweigh the ease of pirating.

What if, the company that made the game died and so they wouldn't get paid anyway? Like Westwood and the good Command and Conquers, would that be unethical?

Not really. Unless the company went under explicitly because of piracy, then it would be sad.

Honestly, pirate Nintendo games everyone.

Is it bad to pirate the first Diablo game? There is simply no way to buy the game legitimately now, absolutely none. Technically it's not abandonware though because battle.net still supports it

We've established that pirating is bad, no matter the reason. Fair enough, you can't buy the game anywhere, but its still bad.

You've made an enemy today. *gives evils*