I don't get why that has any relevance to the thread. Are you trying to say that because she is a goth, and because goths are stereotyped as hating god, her opinion is somehow invalid?

I happen to agree with her, and the fact is that regardless of what culture she subscribes to, she is right in saying that Christians are at the center of this debate.

However there is the side of the debate that asks whether this act is considered murder. I think that side of the debate belongs to everyone, not just christians.

You're right. It has very little to no relevance to the thread. I just get sick of listening to people whine about how christianity is to blame for all of the worlds problems. My point is only that people should be able to have an opinion without others grouping that opinion into a religious point of view. Am I guilty of this? Sure. I just lumped sopmeone's opinion into the "goth opinion" category. It's just that Christianity is such an easy target nowadays I wish people would just shut the **** up and work a little bit harder to come up with scapegoats.

Well in all fairness, they make themselfs an easy target. Anti gay, anti abortion, anti sex before mariage, anti save sex. You won't make much friends like that in the modern 2006 we live in today.

Unfortunatly, Christians are often the center of discussion with a lot of subjects like this. There is no getting around to it. What else do you want us to do OANST? Blame someone else just because they happen to make themself easy targets?
Not gonna happen.

How can you not blame everything on an organisation that says menstrual periods are a sin? C'mon. :p

I can see the slogans now. God; pro-peace, anti-period.

Havoc, I agree. Christians do make themselves an easy target and I disagree with them on damn near everything (especially worshiping Satan. Goddamnit I love to worship Satan.). But this particular topic is not a religious topic, in my opinion. It is an ethics topic. Some people take ethics from religion and some don't. I just don't see why we are concentrating on the ones that do.

While it's more ethics than it is religion, religion is still involved.
As america is run by christians, and not atheists, it involves religion and religion probably influenced the descision, which is totally wrong in my eyes.

Still, while people should take responsibility for their actions and abortion is technically killing, they shouldn't be completely illegal anywhere, as rape victims and people who will almost certainly die due to giving birth or whos physical or mental health is threatened by a baby deserve the right to choose to terminate their child.

The moment they made it a law, it became a religion topic. People in South Dekota didn't go: Well in MY opinion abortion is bad, so lets ban it from the entire state. That would not be accepted by anyone with more then two working braincells. Putting in a law based on one persons opinion isn't accepted anywhere.
But now, omg whats this? God says it's bad? Well then people can't do much else then agree can't they? LETS MAKE IT A LAW! Hey, it's in the bible... every other law we have is based on the bible, so why not this one?

I agree with OANST in the sense that it seems anyone can be considered genius for dissin' on the ol' God. It's turning into quite the "Let's diss Bush because it's hilarious!" affair.

But damn, people, still with the abortion crap. It's a ****ing foetus. I don't see many of you anti-abortionists going campaigning against the creation and exchange of veal. Hell, if you are so against the destruction of 'could-be' babies, why the **** do you eat eggs?

Because animals are delicious, especially when young and defenseless. The human fetus is tough and gamey, unless slow-cooked on a spick, gradually rotated, and smoked. And honestly, who has the time for that nowadays?

But seriously, I have no stance on abortion. I'm not really looking for one either. Killing is bad, yes, but so is raising another unproductive member of society, destined to end up ruining his/her own life and those of his/her parents. So really, I don't care that much either way.

I wouldn't really say they're destined to be unproductive members... I was almost aborted after all.

...Which does make my stance a little shakey and difficult to stand by, but meh. Everything's more difficult when it's personal. I know my mom's life would have been more successful--she wouldn't have married a crazy man, whom she'd divorce 3 years later after various beatings, and then raise a child on her own. But hey, it's great to be alive!

EDIT: I do recognize that the kids are highly likely to become unproductive members though; I take great pride in the fact I've overcome the hardships in my life as most kids would have just followed in their parent's footsteps, making the same, horrible choices.

Yeah. I meant this.

I'm not so callous and bastardtastic that I would say such horrible things about someone so important to me. XD

I was almost aborted as well.

Then I think thank god that I wasn't, considering all the adventures and wodnerful and unique feelings I've experienced. Some parts have been bad yes, but thats what makes you realize the good you have in your life. And I don't want others to fade away into nothingness before they get a chance. Sure they may not end up "in the right hands," but that doesn't mean they won't become amazing human beings. So yeah, pro choice is more favorible in my opinion, but my heart goes towards adoption.

I really don't get your post. I mean, someday a few years back the people in South Dakota said "Well in MY opinion beating your wife is bad" and "In MY opinion having sex with children is bad". So why couldn't they say "Well in MY opinion abortion is bad, so lets ban it from the entire state"?

The fact that their morals come from religion is of no consequence. What is important is how universal any set of morals is.

Dear God !! What a hoot. Almost peed myself when i saw that.
Think the word your looking for is "spit ".
However you may have something there, could be a way to control unwanted
pregnancies in the Latino community, although i don`t think they will be to keen on the idea.

Thanks for the laugh.

No, I mean like, throwing a latino on a fire and cooking a baby on it.

I had a feeling that wasn't the right word. Not going to edit it, though. 'Tis funny.

Everyone knows that blended baby smoothies are the best way to consume human infants