Failure.
note the 'i've seen'.

Indeed they are, in Britain right now at least. It wasn't always like that but it is now. I can totally see what Jacob is saying. I don't agree with his racism views though.

Jacob isn't being racist (I keep spelling rasist... annoying word)
To clear it up: Note the "I"'ve seen.

Edit: I forgot I left this thread.
*leaves again*

ARGH.

Jacob fucking go away if you're going to be a hypocrite. You say that prejudice against people who wear hoodies is wrong but then you display an equally awful prejudice against people who wear baseball caps and teenage black kids who wear urban clothing. They're just a subculture - granted the subculture has a lot of gangs in it who glorify their crime by saying that it's part of their popular culture but the fact is that it's not. But for the most part it's just young black kids who look up to their idols and peers, and associate with them and their culture by wearing the same clothes. When was the last goddamn time you heard a news report about a black kid who was dressed like freaken 50 cent who killed anyone? Or vandalised anything? Or robbed an old lady? You barely EVER hear about it. If it all. In fact I've never seen a single black kid on Street Crime UK, and the number of times I've seen that stupid show because there's been nothing else on probably outnumbers the times you've got laid.

Now compare that to spending 30 minutes watching one of Sky Digital's programmes about british crime... how many of them are white chavs? ALL OF THEM? OH THERE'S A SUPRISE.

Yes, chavs wear baseball caps, but you know what? Statistically, the majority of UK teenagers dress like that. Now when you get a majority group of teenagers, then of course that group are going to be the largest group of teenagers responsible for crime. Baseball hats are just the style, they're not directly linked to causing crime, so do you think banning them will just stop the crime? NO. You'd have to be deluded to think that. All that will happen is they will just take their hat off and THEN go steal things. You can outlaw clothing but you'll never bring a stop to human nature, because human nature is dictated by the people not the clothes.

Chavs aren't the only people who wear baseball caps. Skaters, surfers, extreme sports junkies, even golfers, sunbathers, and several famous people. You can't just label them "the lower order" because they're wearing a fashionable article of clothing designed to shade the face from the sun. It's clearly rediculous.

You know Jacob, for a gay, you are pretty damn intolerant sometimes

I don't have time to read the whole thread at the moment, but generally the people that come in to the store I work at with their hoodies up do steal things. I'm not just assuming either, because we often catch them.
Skaties.
Scum of the earth.

Okay, where exactly did i say that clothing was linked to crime? Upon re-reading my post, i do believe the points i stated where -

* Blacks (or anyone, for that matter) in Dizzy-Rascal gear and hoodies can be considered intimidating.
* I couldn't care less about the baseball cap ban because it filters out the Lower Orders. Meaning that the people who genuinely want to purchase something will merely take their hats off and the thieves will be put off.

'When was the last goddamn time you heard a news report about a black kid who was dressed like freaken 50 cent who killed anyone? Or vandalised anything? Or robbed an old lady? You barely EVER hear about it.'

I don't see where this response to my post comes from, but to respond to it anyway, the news barely publishes the racial tension between the Iraqi's and the Iranians or any of the other Eastern immigrants, it doesn't mean that it's not there.

'In fact I've never seen a single black kid on Street Crime UK'

I don't know what that is, but on one episode of Crime Watch that i saw a few months back, there were quite a few Blacks. But that's not to say all of them are thugs, it's merely to counter your point.

'Yes, chavs wear baseball caps but you know what? Statistically, the majority of UK teenagers dress like that'

Okay, fine -
Baseball cap wearing, Gold ridden (this includes their tacky "knuckleduster rings", large Gold earrings that look like they could be used in a circus and their Gold clown necklaces), sports-ridden, burberry molesting peeps. There we go. Satisfied.

'Chavs aren't the only people who wear baseball caps. Skaters, surfers, extreme sports junkies, even golfers, sunbathers, and several famous people. You can't just label them "the lower order" because they're wearing a fashionable article of clothing designed to shade the face from the sun. It's clearly rediculous.'

There, see above then. Besides, i'm sure from previous posts i've made you knew exactly what i meant.

Oh, and for the people who are calling me racist, feel free to quote my racist comments.

I've only had time to scan over the thread, so...

All I'd say is that it makes sense to me that somewhere like Bluewater would want to ban hoodies - I know it's a massive generalisation, to say "all teens wearing hoodies are thugs" (my brother wears them and he's not), but a lot of them ARE, and even if they're NOT a lot of the older generation will feel threatened by small clusters of teens simply by what they may have seen on the news or read about in the papers. It's a knee-jerk reaction, sure - oh my goodness, there's a gang of those terrible hooded-pullover-wearing youths over there, I hope I don't get mugged for my pension! - but if a person is on their own I can imagine they DO feel threatened, especially if they have to walk past a group of teenagers stood talking quietly, hands in pockets, watching them walk past.

Bluewater want to keep their older clientele coming in, since they usually have more money than the teens, and because they want to make it a "welcoming environment" for them they keep the unwanted ones - the hoodies and baseball caps - out. Perhaps it just feeds society's growing paranoia about hoodies, but it does make sense in a way to me. *shrugs*

Mind you, I've not heard anyone say it's bigotry to ask a motorcycle-rider to remove his/her helmet before entering a bank. Does this mean all motorcyclists are potential bank robbers?

Asking a motorcyclist to remove his helmet when he comes into a bank is a moot point - banks haven't banned the wearing of hoods or baseball caps. Bluewaters won't even let you in if you're wearing a hooded sweater, yet as an ultimate example of hypocrisy they sell hooded sweaters in their shopping center.

Bluewaters don't need to ban hoodies and baseball caps. They aren't intimidating - the only reason that anyone is scared of teenagers who wear their hoods up is because the news media has been fearmongering to make teenagers lives more difficult than they already are.

Muslim terrorists wear turbans, and now there are many people who are ignorant enough to get intimidated by people who wear turbans - but do you think we should ban those too? Just because a small group of teens use hoods to conceal themselves when they commit crime doesn't instantly mean that it's how all teenagers behave and hoods should be banned. It's ridiculous, irrational and unreasonable.

Surely they could just take off their hoodies or caps before they enter Bluewater? That's if they were entering for kosher reasons.

'Muslim terrorists wear turbans'

There's a generalisation that can go straight to the 'Generalising...' topic.

Out of intrigue, Dino. Are you Codek?

Exactly, I agree. It's no problem to take them off if you've got nothing to hide.

Oh dear. I smell trouble.

"Muslim terrorists wear turbans" isn't a generalisation you arse, it's a fact. They have to because it's part of their religion, which they abide to, they're highly religious even in war since they consider their "terrorism" to be a jihad. And by Muslim terrorists I mean, terrorists of Muslim dissent, not "all muslims are terrorists". If you gave even a gram of effort to reading my damn post you'd know what I was on about.

And no, I'm not Codek. Haven't you seen my photos? What do you think I pulled those out of my brown eye? I haven't seen you posting any photos Jacob... so how do I know that you're who you say you are? You might just be... wait...

Goddamnit I thought I had something for a minute there. >_<

Although I agree with you that it was a bit of a pointless gesture in banning hoodies outright, and I was mostly playing Devil's advocate, I'd argue the idea that "teens in hoodies don't look intimidating". Sure, a lot don't - but banning intimidating-looking-teens-in-hoodies sounds a bit... unworkable. One person's major terrifying threat is another person's schoolfriend looking cool.

I'm a young single female, and a lot of kids/early teens that live round my way seem to go out of their way to look like they'd jump you as soon as look at you - I'm fully aware that it's mostly newshound scaremongering, but the fact is that in recent weeks gangs of youths (like those Bluewater have banned) HAVE caused peoples' deaths, and it does make you think twice about standing on a platform at an unmanned train-station with a gang of jeering teenagers down the platform throwing glass bottles on the track. They're probably no threat whatsoever, they're probably discussing school and shopping and computer games - hell, they might be discussing azaleas for all I know - but the fact is I DON'T know that - for all *I* know they might be sizing me up and about to try and nick my handbag. Human nature to over-react and fear the unknown, and all that?

...and I'd argue that teens lives are so "oh GOD SO HARD *angstangst*!" but then I don't know much about you and I don't want to generalise. ;)

And can't people leave the whole Dino/Codek thing alone, now? *geesh*

'"Muslim terrorists wear turbans" isn't a generalisation you arse, it's a fact'

Oh God yeh, i completely forgot that in the CCTV footage of one of the London bombers he was actually wearing a Turban(!) Crazy!

'Haven't you seen my photos?'

I could post a picturegraph of a Phallus wearing a tophat. It doesn't mean i'm a Phallus wearing a tophat.

EDIT -

'And can't people leave the whole Dino/Codek thing alone, now? *geesh*'

As far as i am aware, i've been the first to mention it.

YES some of them don't, it's a moot point. My point is that some of them DO and that has lead to some ignorant people being intimidated by people who wear turbans and traditional islamic dress.

I could use the same thing back at you by saying that some teenagers don't wear hoodies OR baseball caps when committing crimes... it flattens neither your point nor mine.

The question is, should we ban turbans because a few terrorists have worn turbans? Should we ban anyone who looks like osama bin-laden because they have a beard AND a turban? People are intimidated by them, so surely by the same logic as the hoody thing we should ban them?

It's popular chav culture to steal. Plus, theres a higher ratio of theiving twats to terrorists.

No, because it doesn't cause as much fear as the hoody thing. Probably because the hoodies have been hyped by the media, but still, I'd fear a bunch of leering chavs with the clothing Jacob described over some 20 year old man with a beard and turban minding his own business.

And no, I'm not scared of chavs because of the media. I was scared long before the media hyped it. When I'd go outside in my Green Day hoody and baggies years and years ago, I'd know to try and avoid these guys wearing Nike caps and trackies as they would hassle me and threaten me.

Not so much now, I'm getting better. In the street next to mine there is a 'muslim' family. All their children are chavs and part of the local 'kru'. One has a girlfriend with which he often has underage sex. He steals, smokes, swears loudly, intimidates people. His brother stole my friends phone and ipod in broad daylight, threatened him with a knife and also smoked and ****ed underage. When I tell them they are stupid low life chavs, they say "It's cuz I iz a muzlim, innit?" When judging from behaviour, hoqw could they possibly call themselves muslims?

If banning hoodies keeps these scum out of shops, I'm all for it.

That's an interesting conclusion...

Do you not think that terrorism has been hyped up by the media more than chavs wearing their hoods up? I'd say that it has...

I'd say that people are more frightened of terrorists than they are of chavs. Yes there is the fact that you can look at a chav and be intimidated more easily than you can look at a muslim and be intimidated, simply because they're more widespread... but if you live in an area where there is a muslim/islamic community then I'd say it's probably MORE scary if you have that irrational fear that they are all terrorists.

Maybe. But the chav thing is more immediate and applies better to situation of going to the local shop. It depends on who, or where you are.
There are some places where the terrorists would never bomb, such as my local chippy. But the chavs congregate there like flies gather round shit. So the old lady is going to feel more frightened of chavs when she goes for some chips, not the muslim bloke who owns the shop.

See what I mean?

From what my friends have said, quite a few of us don't give a bothered about the potential terrorist thing. I, for one, don't actually feel any fear when walking past a group of men who look like they're going to a Harry Potter convention (Professor Quirell, anyone?) or a group of women who're trying to prevent invoking their Hayfever allergies.

When walking past the Lower denzients, however, i will speed up and if i can, cross to the otherside of the road. I'd say up until the London attack, quite a few people were rather blase about the whole terrorist issue, purely 'cos of the sceptism around it. However, i'd say some of the older generations were quite blase about the Chav issue, purely because they don't seem to understand how vile and cretinous these scum-dwelling c*nts are.

Though saying that, there have been two moments in the past year where i've been quite relieved that Chavs are around today. These moments were resolved in violence/intimidation. So, i've decided that when i become the ruler of England all people with bad attitudes to life with no respect for anybody WILL be castrated temporarily (with it becoming permanent if they don't change their stylee-o), HOWEVER, some will then be recruited as members of the 'Red Hounds'.

Every memorable Leader has some form of secret group.

Yeh.

That greatly annoys me. My dad thinks it's like mods and rockers, with both sides being as violent as each other. He doesn't understand when I tell him that everyone except the chavs just want to get on with their lives and live peacefully. He doesn't understand that they cause all the trouble, start all the fights and do all the crime.

However, since he watched the happy slapping thing he's started to realise that I'm talking sense.

In Hull there've been quite a few clashes between the Chavs and the Alternatives. One instance being all the Townies standing near all the entrances for a shopping centre and shouting abuse at all the Alterts who came out, they even started punching and kicking them.

It eventually led to a bit of fighting, with the Chavs coming off worse, as the Alterts had some neeto chains and spiked cuffs. Plus, as we all know, the typical Altert is used to pain, what with the self-harming shenanigans and they're also pretty strong as they store all their violent urges and repress them totally. So when they do pop, they pop like a little pop-rocket.

As I said, these attacks are started by the low-life. The alternatives had done nothing to provoke them and didn't start the fight, they were only defending themselves from the kicking and punching. That is why I hate the chavs so much. Evil, evil bastards...

I've always thought it would be quite funny to watch an alternative spike-wearing dude blat a chav in the face with a sharp pointy wristband thing.

The most I ever experienced in terms of cool people vs chav violence was in Bournemouth, a surfer throwing a chav out the store old fashioned style (grabbed him by the shirt and arse, lifted him off the ground, then threw him out the door face first into the pavement). He had a broken nose, cuts and grazes, ripped clothes, and hobbled away with a limp. If I remember right my social group and I made a point of shaking the shop owner's hand for it.

I have a friend in another town and he says the skateboarders have taken up 'chav slapping'. Apparently, they ride up behind a chav at high speed and smack them. The chav is so bewildered that by the time he realises whats going on, the skater has already gone.

Also, I've heard of people, who when approached by a mouthy chav, wait until the chav's all 'in ya face' then steal their burberry hat and run. :D

That sounds awesome...man...I gotta start doing that...

I so hate chavs.

Let's make Britain a no-chav-zone...we could call in the UN for violating cease-chav treaties or something.

Yeah. The sight of a chav makes me have Jacob style genocidal ideas.
I was waiting for the bus on wednesday and there was the chav couple and the mother was literally shouting 'fuck' every few seconds while conversing (shouting) with her partner and her push-chair bound son. I was thinking, shall I kill the child now and save society another couple of thousand on dole money and generally make Britain a better place to live in, in about 12 years time.

But then I caught the wrong fucking bus and had to walk across the city to get home. Don't laugh. :nonono:

On a totally unrelated note; Buses are annoying like that. Like when you get on and you're half a mile away from the bus stop where you got on and you hear the driver mutter "oh damn, got the wrong headcode on again!". You end up in the next town when you wanted to get to the center of the one you were in previously.

Grr.

*keyword* chav */keyword*

My stance is that, that kind having children is a form of child abuse, because it is. No child who has been brought up correctly swears constantly, is homophobic, racist, narrow-minded, violent, intimidating and revels in the fact that they smoke/drink/copulate at a young age.

On a seperate note, i recently went to one of my local clubs for rock night and was quite baffled to see quite a few Trendy-puffs (the White Shirt Brigade kind) on the dancefloor. As i watched them attempt to dance to a bit of Slipknot, i then realised they were there purely to "get some bird, like, maaaaate"

They make me nauseaus. One of the reasons being the fact that they danced like utter prickards whilst trying to "woo" the ladies. Then they took off their shirts (one had a rather nice body, but his friend looked as if he was auditioning for the role of Fat Bastard from Austin Powers) and attempted to "woo" the ladies even more by thrusting their pelvis' at them.

Needless to say, many-a-pretty-lady moved away and got on with their grooving.

I hate Trendy-puffs in my club. MY. CLUB.

Thats not true, Depends where the kid is. If they go to a normal school, They will learn swearwords and use them alot, They might mix in with the wrong crowd, Get into smoking, Drinking or Drugs. Also it depends about the area they live in, somewhere rough they might learn to be homophobic and/or racist. So yeah :p

Yes, I mean look at Jacob for instance, he considers himself to be of the "higher orders" but he's a total asshole. XD

I kid.

But really I must say CMB has a point... not everyone who is raised as a chav swears all the time, and not everyone who is raised "properly" becomes what you expect.