Exoddus and Stranger's Wrath are generally considered to be good games.

Sometimes I do wonder, however, why those who only liked Abe's Oddysee think there's a future in Oddworld for them? Not saying you're this type of person, Nep. But I do wonder if it's just wishful thinking on their part? Hope? Oddysee had such an impact they can wade through 4 Oddworld games they disliked just in case OWI capture that original magic?

Holy Sock, Nepsotic can't accept the fact that AE is the "real" Oddworld.

By the way, I'm curious to see how Lanning will "re-write" Exoddus (when we know the story behind it):

http://web.archive.org/web/199901290...ials/oddworld/

You know, I never got the connection that they started digging up Mudokon bones because of Abe's actions in the first game. Perhaps that's something that could be more of a focus in SoulStorm?

Me neither. It doesn't make sense: Bonewerkz and SoulStorm Brewery already existed during AO, right? Or maybe he means that since Abe managed to shut down RuptureFarms, the Glukkons produce more brews (?).

He means that shutting down RuptureFarms created a big deficit in bones so they started mining the burial grounds. Doesn't entirely hold up since AE takes place directly after Oddysee and the Mines seem to be in full swing.

But I do like idea of Abe's actions having unforseen negative consequences.

I think it links in with the original idea of the movie where Abe releasing a large portion of RuptureFarms' livestock leads to Molluck using Mudokons instead in desperation.

Ah, yes.

Is that really "negative"? They're just stealing bones.

Yeah, to be honest I don't get what the big deal is other than the slavery and torture. That sounds sarcastic, but honestly - all they're doing is taking bones. When did I say Abe's Exoddus and Stranger were not good games? Please, enlighten me.

Nep is a Glukkon sympathiser.

In all seriousness, I never got that the bones were being dug up because of Abe's actions either. It would be nice to see more of this "trickle-down" effect brought to light in Soulstorm, and really connect the world a bit more.

Well the Mudokons are very spiritual people so digging up your ancestral burial grounds is problematic. Also, in Oddword, there are actual Mudokon spirits who are being disturbed by the mining.

I should have elaborated. When I said they were generally considered good games I was poking at the idea that, therefore, people are going to think that one or the other are better experiences than the original. Therefore your original statement certainly applies to your own personal tastes but there isn't this general idea that Oddworld never topped their original outing 18 years ago - and therefore perhaps we shouldn't be too excited about the future.

Yes, but from a storytelling viewpoint it's less dramatic than killing Mudokons (to eat them after) in AO.

It is but it's just the starting point. Abe then learns they're using the bones to make Brew and later on their tears. Not nearly as dramatic, certainly. But Abe's Exoddus was always sort of a thematic repeat rather than taking the overall narrative deeper and into new dramatic territory.

Plus, we get that timeless line:

I always felt the desecration of Necrum was very dramatic - not only are they chopping up Mudokons for their meat but even their bones aren't safe; a sacred burial ground is being dug up and the remains of Mudokons laid to rest are being disturbed, and restless spirits are even being trapped. It shows a massive disrespect and disregard on the part of the Magog Cartel for the Mudokons, their history, their beliefs, and their dead.

So? It's kind of like "meh" after you've just played a game where they're going to be chopped up and have their heads put on sticks.

Nepsotic, AO was a happy accident. You have to learn to live with it.

AO was quite ahead of it's time really. I'm not surprised it got the attention it deserved.

If the brewery has a deficit of bones following RF's destruction, that implies RF had been shipping mudokon bones there for some time. I always thought that they hadn't yet started to make Mudokon Pops during AO, hence 'Coming Soon...' Abe discovered the plans before they were put into motion and stopped the idea from happening (at least in RF 1029). I never got the impression Abe learned the truth behind an existing product :fuzconf:

It's established in the AO intro that Mudokon Pops are Molluck's idea, so I wouldn't have thought other franchises would have started making them sooner than 1029.

So if bones were being shipped from RF prior to AO, and SoulStorm Mining Co. was purely reactionary as Lorne suggests, where did they come from? Work related accidents? Seems too small and inconsistent for a huge brewery to rely on!

Think of the mountains of bone powder in Bonewerkz, there's no way anything coming from RF would account for even 1% of that supply. The 'deficit' following AO would be negligible. And the idea that SoulStorm Mining Co is essentially a quick pop-up shop makes no sense in the given timeframe.

Whilst I really like the idea of exploring negative consequences of Abe's actions, in my opinion things would need to change with the narrative to make the situation believable. Having a span of time pass between the games, and establishing exactly why the events in AO let to the plans to mine Necrum, for example.

Maybe these are the kinds of story changes Lorne has hinted at for the new game? :)

I would love if they reworked it to something like that, I always imagined they had been doing it for possibly years before RF even concepted the idea of Mudokon Pops - but it would (for me) make the stories feel alot more connected, and darker if its directly referenced that due to Abe's actions this and that happened with a negative impact, along with a small time shift as you said. I imagine the corporations would rather quickly scramble to get something going by the time they hear of the demise of RF1029 - but there's no way they could've gotten to where they were only weeks afterwards

I feel as though rather than it being specifically Mudokon bones that were coming from Rupturefarms it might have been just any bones in general from the livestock at the meat processing facility. When Rupturefarms shut down this was when they didn't have a supply of livestock bones so they resorted to digging up a Mudokon burial ground and found that these Mudokon bones had, "Twice Ze Flavour."

This still doesn't explain how well set up the Soulstorm Mining Co. appears to be, so perhaps they were just doing it to a lesser extent, since in Exoddus we see them trying to expand into the Mudomo/Mudanche Vaults?

Either way, I like the idea of Abe's good intentions having these kinds of consequences.

This makes sense. Bones from animals made the original brew. But it wasn't until they started using Mudokon Bones that they realized they made an unholy drink of addicting power.

No, it implies that Brew is made with any kind of bone, not specifically Mudokon bones. I don't know how that mistake crept into everyone's head, because it's never mentioned or implied that way.

RuptureFarms provided the majority of the bones because they're a meat processing plant, obviously taking out a lot of bones from all the creatures. The idea to cut up Mudokons hadn't even been put into action when RF was shut down (AO took place over the course of a single day). But at Bonewerkz we see absolute huge mountains of bone powder. There is no way that is all Mudokon bones.

The hype is mauling me to pieces

Noice

i assumed that the whole 'twice ze flavour' thing was to do with them adding mudokon tears to the brew and adding extra bone powder (the words 'X-tra Bone' is something seen on a brew bottle in one of AE cutscenes), which they could have been doing since before Abe shut down RF. i could be wrong though.

does anyone know if Soulstorm Mining Co was active before RF was shut down? i was under the impression with AE that Soulstorm Brew had increased in sales due to addiction and that Soulstorm Mining Co were set up before RF was shut down because RF bones weren't enough to meet demands anymore. i'm not sure if that's correct though.

i assumed Soulstorm Brew had always been super-addictive (at least to the mudokons), even when they used only animal bones.

SoulStorm Mining Co can be assumed to be operational before AE because of how much digging has already been done, and because we see a sign stating "under new management" referencing Molluck's disappearance. If Molluck was the previous manager then SoulStorm Mining Co would have to have been established before AE begins.

I always interpreted the "Under New Management" notice as referring to the acquisition of the Necrum Burial Grounds by the Magog Cartel.

This.



If I can summarise the last few pages of this thread:

• Word of God has stated that Necrum Mines was opened in response to Rupturefarms being closed down.
• AE is set the day after AO and appears to show a mature operation
• This doesn't work in the timing.
• There's no real way to consolidate the two concepts
• Someone fucked up. That's just about it.
• We can keep discussing this if you like, but really at this point you're just running in circles.

Either that or it was an established mining company and the Magog Cartel moves really fucking fast.

That brings up an interesting question though, to what extent was the Cartel blindsided by the actions of Abe? Are his actions unusual considering RF1029 was obviously an established plant, as with the Brewery. Is the status quo so absolute that actually, the Magog Cartel couldn't forsee any sort of uprising or insurgency?

I somehow think that "slave worker gets the ability to possess security personnel and high ranking executive Glukkons" was not anywhere on their list of possible future problems in terms of uprisings.

And yet they have chant suppressors everywhere and armed security everywhere as well as landmines within a corporate environment. RF is just as much a fortress as it is a meat processing plant.

STM is a speedy shit. I was about to make this exact point. Really the whole Mudokon uprising is due to the negligence of whoever didn't want to put chant suppressors at equidistant points around the facilities.

Literally every 20 feet fucking chant suppressors to zap any cunt that tries it. Even the amount there are already would suggest glukkons are pathologically terrified of even the most cack-handed indoctrinated slave's latent magical powers.

Yes, but it could be argue that the chant suppressor is (mostly) a game mechanic.

That would be my argument, yes. If Abe's Oddysee would have been a movie like Lorne intended I don't think the concept of chant suppressors would even have existed.

Also in the original story Abe wasn't supposed to get that power until he completed the ancient trials, which indicates it's not the sort of power every Mudokon has or is at all common with modern Mudokons.

In the game, it really isn't implied that the destruction of Rupture Farms caused them start mining in Necrum, so I'd bet that they just abandoned that aspect of the story, most likely due to time constraints.

Here we go again!

let me tell you about the ludonarrative

On the topic of why Soulstorm Brewery was such a big deal and needed to be taken down, while the disrespect for the Mudokons' ancestors started things off, if that was the real problem, then the game could easily have stopped at Necrum Mines and gone no further.

However, the real evil was in the use of Soulstorm Brew to establish an addiction for it among the naïve Mudokons. This dependency on brew logically leads to a dependency on the suppliers, so they're forced to labor for brew or suffer withdrawal. So Glukkon corporations buy brew, trick potential workers into drinking so much as a drop, and get extra manpower while Soulstorm Brewery makes a pretty penny.

Overall, the Magog Cartel gets more powerful as Mudokons suffer in slavery. Neither are things the dwindling Natives can afford. The solution? Cut the snake at the head; if the Brewery falls, the plot falls as well.

Sorry if this has been clarified elsewhere but I really don't want to skim all 26 pages of the thread. Do we know if the game will use the same 2.5D format of New'n'Tasty or is it something different? I'm really hoping to see a 3D Abe game in the near future :X
Also, is it a slightly modified adaptation of the original game a la N'n'T or a new game entirely? From the announcement I got the impression that this would be a sort of expanded edition to the original game which is something I'm personally really looking forward to seeing.

You know as much as we do from the limited info release on the website.