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-   -   Bits & Pieces VIII (OMG, Hobo visited! Now this title can't be libelous Edition) (http://www.oddworldforums.net/showthread.php?t=20887)

Laser 07-30-2012 12:29 PM


Varrok 07-30-2012 12:39 PM

I like the idea, but the video alone hasn't met my expectations :(

Mr. Bungle 07-30-2012 04:35 PM

http://i.minus.com/ibdQjU4vcDblWs.gif

Coraline in the making.

Mac Sirloin 07-30-2012 08:24 PM


DarkHoodness 07-30-2012 10:46 PM

Weird game crossovers #386:

http://www.oddworldforums.net/attach...1&d=1343717161

The hat is shopped in, unfortunately. Maybe I can take this one stage further, though... :P

Nate 07-31-2012 03:46 AM

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There’s a couple of reasons.

First off, the guy’s a complete and utter ass. He endears himself to no one and refuses to take criticism. This makes him a target – people can vent their frustrations, make edits of his shit, make fun of him. It’s fun and cathartic and he deserves it, so why not?

Second, because he lives off of his art. This is his day job, he makes money from it. So for him to put so little effort into something that thousands of others are also trying to do—and do far better, for far less gain—is downright insulting to creatives everywhere.

Third, public critiques also have a secondary purpose – they educate others on techniques, tools, mistakes etc. When somebody pens a blogpost saying “Dobson is a hack because he does x”, the people reading and folowing all of this are indirectly being given tips and pointers on what to do or what not to do in their own artistic endeavors. And utimately that’s a net gain for the community as a whole.

And fourth, the guy is a darling of DeviantArt and many younger artists actually look up to him, and he actually has the nerve to give (hilariously bad) advice to these people, as though he is an expert. So it becomes important to point out his flaws and mistakes so that these people do not take his advice and follow it to disastrous ends.

And yet huge numbers of people read his comics and he's clearly successful enough to support himself. While that remains true, why the hell should he change what he's doing?

Wings of Fire 07-31-2012 03:57 AM

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While that remains true, why the hell should he change what he's doing?

Because being popular isn't the same as being good?

Crashpunk 07-31-2012 04:03 AM

Well now my happy mood just increased.

I'm so glad their back.

Manco 07-31-2012 04:10 AM

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And yet huge numbers of people read his comics and he's clearly successful enough to support himself. While that remains true, why the hell should he change what he's doing?

In terms of his attitude and asshole-ish behavior, that can and will actively drive away fans, potential employers, potential clients etc. That will actively hurt his financial success and his livelihood.

Second, without experimenting or improving his technical abilities, he’s stagnating. That means he’s stuck as he is, and for any artist trying to make a living that’s bad – it lowers the perceived quality of your work, and it makes people less likely to hire you as you show no drive for self-improvement or quality control.

And then there’s the simple fact that when a large internet collective hates you, that’s a big ball-and-chain tied to you – nobody is going to want to hire you, collaborate with you or defend you if they know that could affect them too. Showing some humility and setting out to improve himself would probably get a ton of people off his back and earn him a lot of respect. But he’s happy shutting out criticism, holding onto his contrary opinions and grade-school techniques, and moaning to his (teenage) fanbase about anything and everything.

He simply has no respect for himself or his work, and does everything he can to stay stuck in his ways. He has no artistic drive, he doesn’t try his best, he doesn’t try to improve, and yet wants to be seen as a ~*professional artiste*~ to his fans. And while he carries on like that, more people are going to realise he’s a hack and leave him behind. And that will hurt him.

Nate 07-31-2012 05:37 AM

And yet... and yet... he seems to be doing fine in spite of everything you say.

I'm not saying that you're wrong, just that those people getting worked up over it seem a little silly to me.

Manco 07-31-2012 06:03 AM

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And yet... and yet... he seems to be doing fine in spite of everything you say.

It’s more like he barely scrapes by.

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I'm not saying that you're wrong, just that those people getting worked up over it seem a little silly to me.

What’s the point of the internet if not for a whole lot of people to communicate about a particular subject?

Mac Sirloin 07-31-2012 08:43 AM

Hey guys, remember when I was really really angry about Ctrl Alt Del for awhile? Goin on rants and complaining at length about a webcomic? That sure worked out for me huh?

Wings of Fire 07-31-2012 09:05 AM

Yeah, I remember that miscarriage of a rant.

Mac Sirloin 07-31-2012 09:11 AM

Honestly it was just a lot of angry afterbirth spilling forth from a bad couple of weeks I was having.

MeechMunchie 07-31-2012 11:01 AM

I have no significant opinions on the man but I know a shitty webcomic when I see one.

You need to have played The Stanley Parable to understand this, but it's a really good game, short, and free so you have no excuse. It's Source-based, but doesn't actually need any games installed prior. Linkety link link.


Varrok 07-31-2012 11:28 AM

I've played The Stanley Parable and I think this video's a win.

Also, Narrator's voice is... addicting.

MeechMunchie 07-31-2012 11:38 AM

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Also, Narrator's voice is... addictive.

Standard outside the US.

Look, me teach you English very good

Varrok 07-31-2012 12:00 PM

I meant what I meant!



Actually, no, I didn't. Thank you. Me happy.

Havoc 07-31-2012 01:44 PM

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It’s more like he barely scrapes by.


What’s the point of the internet if not for a whole lot of people to communicate about a particular subject?

Agreeing that he's an asshole who gives bad advice is one thing. Dedicating entire websites and 30 minute video's to the guy is being an obsessive twat who is jealous that an idiot with half an ounce of talent has more fans and attention than he does.

Wings of Fire 07-31-2012 02:09 PM

Bringing jealousy into an argument like this is like bringing bitterness into a religious argument.

It's worthless and stupid and you should know better.

Manco 07-31-2012 04:39 PM

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Agreeing that he's an asshole who gives bad advice is one thing. Dedicating entire websites and 30 minute video's to the guy is being an obsessive twat who is jealous that an idiot with half an ounce of talent has more fans and attention than he does.

This is a thing that the creative community does all the time. I’ve noticed, artists, designers, musicians etc. will very quickly band together and get vocal about someone or something that is offensive to their chosen craft.

I don’t have a problem with a bunch of people being vocal about their dislike for a hack like Dobson. And it’s rather sad that you feel the need to belittle them for putting some effort into it.

Nate 07-31-2012 06:19 PM

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Bringing jealousy into an argument like this is like bringing bitterness into a religious argument.

It's worthless and stupid and you should know better.

I disagree. How else can you explain these people's vehemence?

Also, what has bitterness got to do with religion?

Havoc 07-31-2012 06:20 PM

Aside from that I also think that it is in no-one's right to tell another person how art should be made. Just because you're an artist everyone looks up to, who makes thousands of dollars a year with just making art and who has thousands of fans. It still doesn't mean you can go to someone else and say 'Hey you, you're doing it wrong'. I've been in the art scene as well and I have my share of fans who stay by my side even though it's been years since I made anything. And one thing I noticed is that for every nice person trying to help someone out, there's at least 2 assholes who think their way is the only right way.

When people ask me for advice I'm sure I will tell them a few things that would make professional writers cringe and would make digital artists facepalm. But guess what, they didn't ask them for advice, they asked me for advice. That means that they like the art style and want to know how they can create something similar. So I tell them how I do what I do. That's not necessarily the best way to do it, but its how I make the work my fans love.

The same exact thing applies to Dobson. He does what he does best, make silly simple comics with ill informed punch lines. And apparently people like him enough for doing that and want to make something similar. What good is it going to do them if they ask a super experienced artist who is specialized in super realistic art if all they want to draw is comics?

Fact remains that people hate this guy because he's (apparently) messing up his own life. They are mad because his skill stagnated, they are somehow mad because this guy isn't what he could be. And if that's the case, creating these flaming websites and video's isn't the way to convince him to do better. And if that isn't the case and people just hate him, go find something better to do with your time. The guy isn't harming anyone, he's doing his own thing and people get a good laugh out of his stuff. And now these guys are almost dedicating their life to pointing out every single flaw and mistake this guy makes. Its pathetic to even watch, to be honest.

Manco 08-01-2012 02:47 AM

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Aside from that I also think that it is in no-one's right to tell another person how art should be made. Just because you're an artist everyone looks up to, who makes thousands of dollars a year with just making art and who has thousands of fans. It still doesn't mean you can go to someone else and say 'Hey you, you're doing it wrong'. I've been in the art scene as well and I have my share of fans who stay by my side even though it's been years since I made anything. And one thing I noticed is that for every nice person trying to help someone out, there's at least 2 assholes who think their way is the only right way.

And just because you’re an artist everyone looks up to, who makes thousands of dollars a year with just making art and who has thousands of fans, it also doesn’t mean you are above criticism or that you have the right to have such a shitty attitude towards your work and your critics.

There is a difference between sticking with an established style and technique because on a subjective level you prefer them (i.e. drawing cartoons instead of realism is a perfectly valid stylistic choice) and actively refusing to try and improve your admittedly mediocre technical skills despite being told by your peers that there is an objectively better way (i.e. Dobson coloring on the same Photoshop layer as his lineart, using the fill bucket to color, having no idea what anti-aliasing is, using the default color swatches instead of coming up with his own palettes, shading with black instead of hues, etc.).


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When people ask me for advice I'm sure I will tell them a few things that would make professional writers cringe and would make digital artists facepalm. But guess what, they didn't ask them for advice, they asked me for advice. That means that they like the art style and want to know how they can create something similar. So I tell them how I do what I do. That's not necessarily the best way to do it, but its how I make the work my fans love.

So if someone comes along and tells you “hey there is a better, more efficient way to do this exact same thing” do you dig you heels in and shit all over the people offering advice? Because that is what Dobson does and it is shitty.

If someone asks you for advice, sure, you tell them what you know – because how you can you tell someone a method you don’t know yourself? That’s fine. But you don’t sit there and ignore perfectly sound advice when someone offers it, especially when you’re supposed to be a professional.


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The same exact thing applies to Dobson. He does what he does best, make silly simple comics with ill informed punch lines. And apparently people like him enough for doing that and want to make something similar. What good is it going to do them if they ask a super experienced artist who is specialized in super realistic art if all they want to draw is comics?

Except any decent artist, illustrator or cartoonist will tell you that before you set off and start your zany comic you need an understanding of the basics like anatomy, perspective and realism. And emulating the techniques of someone who clearly doesn’t is going to harm your work in the long run.


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Fact remains that people hate this guy because he's (apparently) messing up his own life. They are mad because his skill stagnated, they are somehow mad because this guy isn't what he could be. And if that's the case, creating these flaming websites and video's isn't the way to convince him to do better.

Well nothing else has worked, so why not go public? At the very least third party bystanders can benefit from what is being shown.


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The guy isn't harming anyone, he's doing his own thing and people get a good laugh out of his stuff.

No I’m pretty sure he’s actively harming the people who look up to him by passing on terrible advice, holding up his own mediocre work as something to aspire to, and having an absolutely terrible attitude towards criticism for a role model.


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And if that isn't the case and people just hate him, go find something better to do with your time.

[...]

And now these guys are almost dedicating their life to pointing out every single flaw and mistake this guy makes. Its pathetic to even watch, to be honest.

Also no, it’s laughable that you think like this. People don’t sit every hour of the day writing Dobson hatemail; they follow threads and read blogs and sometimes write about it themselves.

It’s silly to believe that because a lot of people are doing one thing, they must logically all be spending all of their time doing it or that they are unable to do this in addition to leading their normal life. “Go find something better to do with your time”? They probably do, immediately after spending ten minutes reading some stuff about the guy!

MeechMunchie 08-01-2012 03:09 AM

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Aside from that I also think that it is in no-one's right to tell another person how art should be made. Just because you're an artist everyone looks up to, who makes thousands of dollars a year with just making art and who has thousands of fans. It still doesn't mean you can go to someone else and say 'Hey you, you're doing it wrong'. I've been in the art scene as well and I have my share of fans who stay by my side even though it's been years since I made anything. And one thing I noticed is that for every nice person trying to help someone out, there's at least 2 assholes who think their way is the only right way.

When people ask me for advice I'm sure I will tell them a few things that would make professional writers cringe and would make digital artists facepalm. But guess what, they didn't ask them for advice, they asked me for advice. That means that they like the art style and want to know how they can create something similar. So I tell them how I do what I do. That's not necessarily the best way to do it, but its how I make the work my fans love.

The same exact thing applies to Dobson. He does what he does best, make silly simple comics with ill informed punch lines. And apparently people like him enough for doing that and want to make something similar. What good is it going to do them if they ask a super experienced artist who is specialized in super realistic art if all they want to draw is comics?

Fact remains that people hate this guy because he's (apparently) messing up his own life. They are mad because his skill stagnated, they are somehow mad because this guy isn't what he could be. And if that's the case, creating these flaming websites and video's isn't the way to convince him to do better. And if that isn't the case and people just hate him, go find something better to do with your time. The guy isn't harming anyone, he's doing his own thing and people get a good laugh out of his stuff. And now these guys are almost dedicating their life to pointing out every single flaw and mistake this guy makes. Its pathetic to even watch, to be honest.

That's silly.

You don't have any fans.

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Anyway, Spelunky runs in a browser now. There's no sound, but if you needed a better advert than my endless rambling, here it is.

http://tinysubversions.com/game/spelunky/

OANST 08-01-2012 06:50 AM

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Also, what has bitterness got to do with religion?

It's an extremely common way for the religious to dismiss out of hand everything that the non-religious have to say.

http://www.baptistdeception.com/tag/bitterness/

STM 08-01-2012 07:02 AM

Bit of a double edge sword, that one. One that a religious person nor an atheist can wield without impaling themselves. Agnostics on the other hand...

Varrok 08-01-2012 07:07 AM

Agnostic High Five!

Mac Sirloin 08-01-2012 07:14 AM


Varrok 08-01-2012 07:34 AM

You made that cat-dressed guy jealous.