Oddworld Forums

Oddworld Forums (http://www.oddworldforums.net/index.php)
-   Oddworld Discussion (http://www.oddworldforums.net/forumdisplay.php?f=6)
-   -   Abe HD Ideas (http://www.oddworldforums.net/showthread.php?t=20450)

Spooce-aholic 11-05-2011 10:16 PM

Maybe they can have a race where the players see a ghost of the other players on their screen or something.

Sekto Springs 11-05-2011 10:23 PM

Though I agree that giving sligs dialogue may disrupt the general atmosphere, I still think that it makes them more congruous with how sligs are portrayed in cut-scenes. The only reason they weren't more chatty was because of the crippling AI limitations in those days. When MO rolled around, we saw sligs behaving the way Lorne and crew probably wanted them to in the first place. Essentially, the limitations made it better.

They're more effective as no-nonsense kind of security guards, but that's not how they really are. The question then becomes; do we take the opportunity to characterize them more now that we have fewer limitations, or do we keep them as the half-sentient, guns-with-legs that shoot first and ask later? I feel that, in capable hands, it could go either way without detracting from the game itself.

Spooce-aholic 11-05-2011 10:25 PM

:

()
I can see what you mean, actually, OddHunter. Perhaps a middle-ground would be best, so as not to humanise too much; maybe they could occasionally engage each other in the same kind of chit-chat as when we see them conversing just as Abe enters the Stockyards. It's unintelligible and emotionless, much like the Metropolice radio chatter in the start of HL2... which makes me think.

In the first game, ALL of the industrialists spoke in low, obscure voices, and as far as I could work out, were not meant to be fully understood by the player. Kind of makes them seem much more merciless. I think as long as any Slig chatter was done like this, and the aforementioned cutscene, it could breathe a little more life into the environments while not breaking character.

Just don't make them speak with the same jive mannerisms as in Munch... I always thought that was awful. :p

Just two small things I thought of while writing this post;
1) I hope the Sligs still spam BS and S'Mo BS when they're about to beat the slaves silly. To me it's highly iconic.
2) Can't remember if we've had word on this, but I hope the Sligs use the visor mask from Oddysee. Looks way cooler and more emotionless.

They should make it so that if Abe stands there listening to their conversations for 30 mins, he says "cool story bro".

STM 11-06-2011 02:40 AM

Far too gimmicky, I'm not sure if you're serious. But adding little internet memes and pop culture references would kill the game for me completely. Especially since playing the game again in maybe five years would probably make them all invalid.

Sekto Springs 11-06-2011 09:49 AM

It totally worked for Shrek.

Right?

Crashpunk 11-06-2011 09:58 AM

:

()
They should make it so that if Abe stands there listening to their conversations for 30 mins, he says "cool story bro".

GOD NO! :fuzmad:

Chubfish 11-06-2011 02:19 PM

I had an idea. How about speed run/time attack/challenge mode? The idea is to get to the goal at the end of the level as quickly as possible, and it could track your time on a leaderboard or something. I know Steam is good with stuff like that.

Maybe you could have leaderboards for time, and mudokons saved for each level. Who can rescue all 28 workers from the first level of RuptureFarms the fastest? Would be cool to see and be quite competitive, I know a few other games that do this that are also 2D platformers.

StrangerEastwood 11-06-2011 02:28 PM

Maybe some challenges outside of the main game. Of course, the secrets are devious enough, so we'll see.

Glitch 11-07-2011 12:29 AM

:

()
I think multiplayer could work in Oddworld depending on how the puzzles are designed. Maybe you handicap each player regularly throughout the game to leave them with certain abilities or skills, like being able to possess or talk to other Mudokons. This can make it so each player has their own importance and task throughout the game.

:

()
@crashpunk 'time trails'? i've been calling them time 'trials'.. Have I been wrong my whole life? o_O..

Multiplayer could work, but you couldn't just stick another player in the game as it is. You'd have to redesign the puzzles, and the layout, pretty much everything about the scene, to make it work for multiple players. What could happen is a second player could opt to control slave mudokons throughout the game and this would allow puzzles to be accessed and completed that are only accessible with the aid of the second player, enabling a '110%' game completion.

I'm sure I mentioned this idea somewhere on the forums. If I haven't none of you are going to believe that I've already got it written down.

EDIT: ah there we go, page 6

Paul_hibs3 11-07-2011 06:55 AM

Nope going to stay stubborn. Abe games is a single player experience. Some of my mates like oddworld but they would cba playing co-op in Abe HD. Too much stress and time, but whereas COD they would play co-op in something like that. I don't want abe HD to have co-op purely for the fact its going down the same cycle as many companies thinking its cool and new when infact its boring and usually broken. AO and AE are single player games, not a Portal 2 where its single player then more story in co-op. It worries me if that's what is being suggested to be put in the game.

Jordan 11-07-2011 07:31 AM

:

()
Nope going to stay stubborn. Abe games is a single player experience. Some of my mates like oddworld but they would cba playing co-op in Abe HD. Too much stress and time, but whereas COD they would play co-op in something like that. I don't want abe HD to have co-op purely for the fact its going down the same cycle as many companies thinking its cool and new when infact its boring and usually broken. AO and AE are single player games, not a Portal 2 where its single player then more story in co-op. It worries me if that's what is being suggested to be put in the game.

If you honestly think multi-player is too stressful and time-consuming, then you have been playing games with a poor multi-player option. It's only boring and broken when it's done wrong. I however have faith in JAW and if they were to execute multi-player, then I think they would do it very well. Also, multi-player has been around for a very long time, it hasn't suddenly become a thing that companies decide to include for the sake of it. Do you really think Oddworld is the kind of game that would jump on bandwagons?

Paul_hibs3 11-07-2011 07:52 AM

:

()
If you honestly think multi-player is too stressful and time-consuming, then you have been playing games with a poor multi-player option. It's only boring and broken when it's done wrong. I however have faith in JAW and if they were to execute multi-player, then I think they would do it very well. Also, multi-player has been around for a very long time, it hasn't suddenly become a thing that companies decide to include for the sake of it. Do you really think Oddworld is the kind of game that would jump on bandwagons?

Multi-player has been put into almost every single game nowadays and most of them are poor. Except AAA titles. I didn't mean multi-player is too stressful and time consuming. I mean co-op games, and espically in a game like Abe's games.

And to your last question yes. Example, Playstation Move and 3D support for Strangers Wrath a HD remake. 3 out of 4 popular trends atm for all new games only thing missing is co-op.

However I ain't complaining about the HD remakes, trust me on that one :D Nor do I mind them trying Playstation Move or 3D TV support because it doesn't really change the game its an optional tweek. Whereas co-op changes the whole game itself.

Chubfish 11-07-2011 07:54 AM

If multiplayer/co-op and time attacks/challenges/etc are being at least considered then hurray for additional content. You can easily make co-op story based in Oddworld me thinks, it's pretty expansive.

I don't see how multiplayer is at all bad. Even in games that do it poorly, it opens alot more gameplay choices, and styles of play, and it is therefore quite good.

Just because multiplayer has been put into "every" game as you say, doesn't mean it's going to not work in this. I can see how it could work in this with ease.

Manco 11-07-2011 08:01 AM

:

()
And to your last question yes. Example, Playstation Move and 3D support for Strangers Wrath a HD remake. 3 out of 4 popular trends atm for all new games only thing missing is co-op.

PSMove: is that a popular trend? Really?
3D support: this is probably the way technology is going, not really a trend.
HD: this isn’t a trend, it’s a standard for games nowadays.

LIJI 11-07-2011 08:35 AM

I want a debugging console!

As for multiplayer, was a Super Mario Galaxy model considered? I'm not sure how you could implement it in Abe HD (Gameplay-wise), but if done right it could probably work. It could be another Mudokon assisting Abe (Alf? Big-Face?) with a different set of abilities, and maybe 2-player-exclusive bonus areas that require 2 players to solve.

(In SMG, a second player could join the game and help Mario collect items by pointing at them, freeze or kill some enemies, and enable Mario to do higher jumps. While this exact model would probably ruin the game, another assist-type model might work)

Spooce-aholic 11-07-2011 10:51 AM

:

()
Far too gimmicky, I'm not sure if you're serious. But adding little internet memes and pop culture references would kill the game for me completely. Especially since playing the game again in maybe five years would probably make them all invalid.

I thought it would be a cool easter egg or something.

:

()
Nope going to stay stubborn. Abe games is a single player experience. Some of my mates like oddworld but they would cba playing co-op in Abe HD. Too much stress and time, but whereas COD they would play co-op in something like that. I don't want abe HD to have co-op purely for the fact its going down the same cycle as many companies thinking its cool and new when infact its boring and usually broken. AO and AE are single player games, not a Portal 2 where its single player then more story in co-op. It worries me if that's what is being suggested to be put in the game.

I thought mulitplayer would be cool so people could tell how good they are at the game.

I know I could get perfect endings in Abe's Oddysee and Abe's Exoddus, but some people may be able to do it faster than me.

There's different types of ways there could be multiplayer in Abe HD. They could have what they had in AO for the PS where the players take turns. They can have a time trials thing where players get their own screen and see 'ghosts' of the other players. They can do teams where they find the total of times for one team, then add up the total time for the other team. The team with the shortest time wins.

That's not the end of the list.

But I thought that a CTF thing would be cool where one player is Abe and the rest are Sligs or something and the player that's Abe has to sneak into the base and capture a flag.

Or we can make it so that there are multiple Abes (one for each player) and everyone has to work together to capture the flag from the base.

They should make it so that when you're playing multiplayer you can change your screen name.

STM 11-07-2011 11:16 AM

Sligattack9000gibbedTherealAbeshady200 points!
Multi-kill


While you're at it, make a kill streak system, hell fifteen kills and you can call in the slogs.

Luskan 11-07-2011 11:16 AM

:

()
Though I agree that giving sligs dialogue may disrupt the general atmosphere, I still think that it makes them more congruous with how sligs are portrayed in cut-scenes. The only reason they weren't more chatty was because of the crippling AI limitations in those days. When MO rolled around, we saw sligs behaving the way Lorne and crew probably wanted them to in the first place. Essentially, the limitations made it better.

They're more effective as no-nonsense kind of security guards, but that's not how they really are. The question then becomes; do we take the opportunity to characterize them more now that we have fewer limitations, or do we keep them as the half-sentient, guns-with-legs that shoot first and ask later? I feel that, in capable hands, it could go either way without detracting from the game itself.

That's a toughy. I actually loved the way they were portrayed - brutal, unemotional, cold etc But I don't know. I'd leave it as it because with the first one, I liked the idea of them being quite different from the rest of the games, with the eyesight's etc.

Chubfish 11-07-2011 11:31 AM

:

()
I want a debugging console!

SECONDED

Also I didn't mean non-sensical multiplayer; I meant 2 people in a platforming setting like Abe's Oddysee is.

Spooce-aholic 11-07-2011 01:09 PM

:

()
Sligattack9000gibbedTherealAbeshady200 points!
Multi-kill


While you're at it, make a kill streak system, hell fifteen kills and you can call in the slogs.

I don't want it to be a FPS like COD. It could still have normal game play. You have to solve puzzles and sneak past the other players to reach the flag. Then you need to sneak out. If Abe dies then the team guarding the flag gets one point and if Abe escapes then he gets points for each flag he takes.

Bodd T.W. 11-07-2011 01:40 PM

Maybe instead of flags, it can be some working mudokens, or maybe just Alf :), that Abe has to save, but he has to make sure that none of the other sligs can see him with the help of the shadows or something like that. Also, I don't think that it would be too bad to have the sligs use their incomprehensible voices like in that one cutscene from the original game since there are hardly ever two sligs put together in the same room anyways.

Spooce-aholic 11-07-2011 02:04 PM

:

()
Maybe instead of flags, it can be some working mudokens, or maybe just Alf :), that Abe has to save, but he has to make sure that none of the other sligs can see him with the help of the shadows or something like that. Also, I don't think that it would be too bad to have the sligs use their incomprehensible voices like in that one cutscene from the original game since there are hardly ever two sligs put together in the same room anyways.

Ok, once the player finds Alf, he/she needs to escort him out of the base without getting Abe or Alf killed. If either of them die, the person playing as Abe looses.

It'll be harder having to rescue Alf because now you have to worry about keeping two things alive (Abe and Alf). That's why having a flag would be easier.

You also have to remember that the Sligs are being controlled by Human players. Imagine trying to escort Alf out of the base while having to deal with real people.

They could try to limit the mobility of Human controlled Sligs, but it would be boring being limited to two screens.

Paul_hibs3 11-07-2011 02:11 PM

I'm fine with multiplayer like time trials and capture the mudkon type ideas etc. Spooce-aholic your suggestions sound good. But I really do not like the appeal of the whole 2-4 co-op play along with friends story attachment.

Paul_hibs3 11-07-2011 02:24 PM

:

()
PSMove: is that a popular trend? Really?
3D support: this is probably the way technology is going, not really a trend.
HD: this isn’t a trend, it’s a standard for games nowadays.

Is PS Move a popular trend? Are you serious? Look at all the games like Kinect or PS Move enabled (Killzone 3, new Fable, LBP2 etc triple AAA titles). 3D support is starting to get supported, more and more companies are trying it. HD is also a trend that has evolved from the God of War HD Collection. None of these were invented or first started by OWI. Are other companies trying at least one of them yes, nothing wrong with that. However I can't think how you can't see that these are copying trends in the gaming market at the moment. What else is there not to copy; except multiplayer/co-op play with 2-4 friends online gimmick and dlc...theres time yet.

Again as my post earlier stated, I have no problem with them trying the new stuff OWI are copying like other companies are its expected. To try and stay with the market, I only have a problem with co-op which can change a game to a completely different extent to something like PS Move and 3D support.

Spooce-aholic 11-07-2011 03:00 PM

:

()
the appeal of the whole 2-4 co-op play along with friends story attachment.

You mean the multiplayer thing in AO for the PS?

Bodd T.W. 11-07-2011 07:48 PM

:

Ok, once the player finds Alf, he/she needs to escort him out of the base without getting Abe or Alf killed. If either of them die, the person playing as Abe looses.

It'll be harder having to rescue Alf because now you have to worry about keeping two things alive (Abe and Alf). That's why having a flag would be easier.

You also have to remember that the Sligs are being controlled by Human players. Imagine trying to escort Alf out of the base while having to deal with real people.

They could try to limit the mobility of Human controlled Sligs, but it would be boring being limited to two screens.
I still think that it should be something other than a flag because Abe would have no sensical need to capture a flag, that I can think of anyways, so maybe it can be something like bait for the scrabs and paramites; I don't know, as long as it's something other than a flag, I would probably be suited with that mode.

Paul_hibs3 11-08-2011 07:18 AM

:

()
You mean the multiplayer thing in AO for the PS?

Correct. I don't want a portal 2 thing. Where there is single player story but there is also a co-op side to the story as well. I'm worried that this would also effect more time spent on making the single player experience better. After all Oddworld is a single player experience.

Wil 11-08-2011 07:50 AM

Like Hand of Odd?

Spooce-aholic 11-08-2011 11:36 AM

:

()
I still think that it should be something other than a flag because Abe would have no sensical need to capture a flag, that I can think of anyways, so maybe it can be something like bait for the scrabs and paramites; I don't know, as long as it's something other than a flag, I would probably be suited with that mode.

Yeah, because everything in a video game has to make sense.

Crashpunk 11-09-2011 01:10 PM

I want Paramite Stockyards or a Stockyards with a mix of Scrab and Paramite. I'm pretty sure every Oddworld fan has always wanted to see them two creatures together :)

Jordan 11-09-2011 01:19 PM

It seems Paramites were planned for the Stockyards, just look at one of the screenshots on the back of the PS1 AO box. JAW should be able to include them in Abe HD if they aren't limited to the old engine. I would love it if we got to see all kinds of creatures ready to be slaughtered. :D

Crashpunk 11-09-2011 01:23 PM

Elums would be intresting in stockyards. Riding Elum and jumping over Paramites and Scrabs :D

Sekto Springs 11-09-2011 01:25 PM

Well, really there'd only be scrabs and paramites. I don't think it would make a huge difference. Pens with paramites would have to have more than one, or else they'll just idle.

A nice touch would have a pen labeled "meeches" and it's totally empty. Though that might be overselling it a bit.

MeechMunchie 11-09-2011 02:00 PM

That would imply it was too recent...

Maybe have a 'Under refurbishment' sign obscuing the word "M-hes" and a few carapace pieces and jawbones lying around.

Crashpunk 11-09-2011 03:34 PM

:

()
Well, really there'd only be scrabs and paramites. I don't think it would make a huge difference. Pens with paramites would have to have more than one, or else they'll just idle.

A nice touch would have a pen labeled "meeches" and it's totally empty. Though that might be overselling it a bit.

I was thinking 2 paramites and a scrab in the same pen and see how they get on :tard:

EDIT: that sounded gross. sorry.

Nate 11-09-2011 10:18 PM

:

()
That would imply it was too recent...

The extinction of Meeches must have been recent, given that the billboards advertising them haven't been taken down yet.

Sekto Springs 11-09-2011 10:26 PM

Even if it wasn't recent, you could just chalk it up to poor management. Changing a sign doesn't really seem like high priority.

Nate 11-09-2011 10:41 PM

A sign like that will deteriorate over time. It's clearly either not-too-old, or been maintained. Given that the latter seems unlikely under poor management (or even competent management who don't feel the need to spend money on a redundant billboard), I'd say that 'recent' is the more likely possibility.

Sekto Springs 11-09-2011 11:06 PM

If the sign is metal (which makes more sense than any other material), it would last for quite a while and still be totally legible.

Manco 11-10-2011 01:02 AM

:

()
If the sign is metal (which makes more sense than any other material), it would last for quite a while and still be totally legible.

The signs are backlit though, which would suggest a printed poster housed in a display case of some kind, similar to the adverts found on train platforms.