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A Conversation About IFB's

Posted 04-18-2012 at 09:04 AM by OANST
There is a recurring theme on the internet, and in life in general, of the militant atheist who is just as pushy, and stifling in their beliefs as proselytizing christians. This reputation is well earned by many of us. I, for example, can be extremely intolerant of religion. This blog is not going to discuss religion, though. This blog is an attempt to explain to people who did not grow up in an IFB (Independent Fundamentalist Baptist Church) exactly why we approach the subject with so much hate, and anger.

I'm going to attempt to tell my personal story here. It's a story that is extremely common with IFB's, so you need to understand that this story is a good, and clear representation of why many militant atheists are so very militant. I've never told anyone a lot of this, and it's going to be hard for a few different reasons. One of those reasons is that I don't really want to say a lot of this out loud (although I think I should), and also I have a difficult time remembering a lot of it. I'm not saying that I blocked it out, but the abuse was so constant that it all just starts running together.

To begin, you need to understand that IFB's are cults. This is not a church that you go to. This is your family. They are your every day, and there is nothing outside of them. Most kids who get bullied at school, or don't like church have means to escape in their personal lives. They develop hobbies, or find neighborhood friends, and while they may still have a hard time because they are different, or whatever the reason, they have outlets. Not true for kids in an IFB. I was not allowed to watch television for more than an hour a day, and the only programs I was allowed to watch were made in the 50's. I was not allowed to read books that are not religious in nature. I was not allowed to be friends with neighborhood children. I was watched, and looked after every second of every day either by my mother, or by a church member. I was at church events typically four times a week. At the very least I would have to be there for three. And I went to school at the church.

Let's start with the physical abuse. Spankings are fairly common in almost every culture, but IFB's take it to the next level. I'm sure everyone has heard of the paddle with the holes drilled in it, usually as a joke, or as a tool to frighten children. I was acquainted with that paddle. Any transgression, no matter how small, was met with violence. And it was not just my mother, although she was where I received the majority of my beatings. Any adult from the church could perform physical punishment on any child for any reason that they saw fit. I remember one particular instance in sunday school when one of the teachers asked to have "Matt" come help him with something. I thought he meant me, so I got up to follow him, but then noticed that he meant an older boy (I was maybe nine). I sat back down, and laughed, feeling kind of embarrassed. My laughter was heard, and I was sent to the corner. Later, when the adult had more time, I was taken into another room where I was spanked. It didn't end there, though. My cousin told my mother what happened. When I got home I was taken to the basement and beaten with a bread board until the board broke. I had many wooden items broken on me but the bread board was definitely the worst. That fucking thing hurt.

As I got older, the beatings increased in intensity at the church, but my mother stopped using wooden items. She took to slapping. The first time that I remember being slapped in the face was when I was about eleven, and had a science report due the next day. I had written the report, but I needed to get some construction paper to draw the planets on for it. I told my mom I needed to get this, and she asked me when it was due. When I told her "tomorrow" she slapped me in the face. I have no clear explanation of why.

The last time that she laid her hands on me, I was either 15 or 16. I can't remember which. I had been asked about a year earlier to not return to the school after summer break, but I still went to church there. I'm actually going to digress for a moment to discuss this. My mother, and everyone else thought that I was a disturbed child. I stopped believing in god very young, and was not able to keep my incredulity in check after a while. It became obvious to everyone that I wasn't like them, and they began a ruthless campaign against me. I had to meet with the pastor of the church regularly, where I would be berated, told that I was a bastard in god's eyes, and often beaten. In one of these meetings something just snapped. I had had enough. Pastor Crabb (what a fitting name, I always thought) was just leading towards me receiving another beating when I stood up and just fucking screamed "Touch me! Put your fucking hand on me, and the first thing I do when I leave is find a phone, and call the cops". He stood up, his face beat red, and started spluttering about how dare I or some shit, and I just screamed "Touch me! Fucking touch me!". He told me to get out. I never had another meeting with him again, and no one at that church ever laid a hand on me again.

Back to that time with my mom. I sat down with her when I was either 15 or 16, and calmly told her that I would not be going to church with her anymore. I told her that that part of my life was over, and that there was nothing she could do or say that would change my mind. I told her that I was sorry if that caused her pain, but that I would never set foot in that church again. She just kind of laughed, and told me that I didn't have a choice. I told her that she was wrong. I've made the choice, and I won't change my mind. I could see that she was starting to get really angry, but for some reason I was extremely calm. She kept saying that I would, and I just kept calmly repeating that I wouldn't. She then got up off the couch, walked over to me, and started slapping me in the face as hard as she could. I lifted my arms over my face to protect myself, and heard her gasp. She started saying that I hit her, and that she couldn't believe that I hit her. It was at this point that I realized that besides being a religious zealot, she was also clearly unstable mentally. She called quite a few of the men from the church while I just sat there in that chair, dumbfounded, listening to her tell them how I assaulted her. None of them would come over, and deal with me so she called the cops. I then got to experience a lovely talking to by a police officer who was quite convinced that I was the worst delinquent ever, and that I was terrorizing my mother. I didn't bother giving my side of the story. What good could it have done?

She never touched me again after that day, and I only went back to that church twice. Once for mother's marriage, and once for her funeral.

I was going to write about a lot more than just the physical abuse, and I still may, but covering such a small portion of it took so long that I will probably hold back the rest of it for a different blog. Thanks for listening, or reading, or whatever.
Total Comments 34

Comments

Dixanadu's Avatar
Can't say I relate. My dad raised me with his concept of religion, saying how it was no different than say, belief in Santa or the Easter Bunny.

As you can imagine, going with this kind of doctrine as a child can get you into a lot of trouble in this country which is pretty much built around Christianity.

I don't necessarily hate organised religion, I just think it's a philosophy providing answers to questions humans don't know, or are too afraid to know, so make up ones that make them feel comfortable.

Religion has good ideas about lifestyle and such, but I can never wrap my head around deity-worship. Believing in ethereal, invisible all-knowing beings that created everything seems just...weird. My brother said we, as a race, would eventually grow out of religion in a few thousand years. Which, is actually the smartest thing he's ever said, if it proves to be true.

Also, there's so many religions. Believers of each say (sometimes vehemently so) theirs is the 'true' religion. If so, I hope to fuck it isn't $cientology.

That shit's just out there.
Posted 04-18-2012 at 09:27 AM by Dixanadu

Havoc's Avatar
Some intense shit right there. That kind of stuff pisses me off. I'm glad you got out of that whole indoctrination cult with a mostly leveled head and started to live your own life the way you wanted.

Must have taken some guts to share some of this. Respect for you!
Posted 04-18-2012 at 09:29 AM by Havoc

OANST's Avatar
I want to reiterate that this blog is not about religion. I am not using this story to try to prove that religion is bad. I am trying to explain where the anger, and the hatred stems from with people who grew up in IFB's, and why it is that they seem to have such an irrational fear of all things religious.

Edit: And this is only a small part of it. I fully intend to make another blog detailing the operations of the church, and the emotional abuse inflicted on kids that go there.
Posted 04-18-2012 at 09:59 AM by OANST
Updated 04-18-2012 at 10:02 AM by OANST

Havoc's Avatar
But... it is about religion. Those people do the stuff they do based on their beliefs, do they not? That includes beating you to make you believe the same shit they do.
Posted 04-18-2012 at 10:18 AM by Havoc

OANST's Avatar
Not all religious institutions are the same. People who don't experience this are incapable of understanding why those of us who have experienced it are so angry with religion. This is an attempt to help them understand where we are coming from.
Posted 04-18-2012 at 10:27 AM by OANST

Varrok's Avatar
:
I told her that I was sorry if that caused her pain, but that I would never set foot in that church again.
Believe me or not, but I actually admire you could still think about her in your situation...

I don't really know what to say here... you had a very tough childhood, much more tough than mine, or my IRL friends from the same birth year... gosh, I was almost never beaten for such reasons

That's true - it's not about religion. People are dicks and they use it as an excuse for their actions
Posted 04-18-2012 at 11:21 AM by Varrok

Mr. Bungle's Avatar
Wow. And I thought the overwhelming boredom of my Catholic church was bad.
Posted 04-18-2012 at 11:28 AM by Mr. Bungle

MeechMunchie's Avatar
This clearly must have been difficult to write, but thank you for doing so. Hearing a genuine story of such an extreme abuse of a belief system makes me, as an antitheist, feel a little more confident in the face of the vague atheist/agnostic majority.

As you seemed to be implying, the anger (and resulting militancy) of those who suffer in these cults does not and should not represent the antitheist argument as a whole. It is, however, for the most part totally justified and deserves as much respect as any other reasoned viewpoint.

Sorry if that sounded pretentious. I actually thought before commenting for once.
Posted 04-18-2012 at 11:49 AM by MeechMunchie
Updated 04-18-2012 at 11:58 AM by MeechMunchie

Sekto Springs's Avatar
Very intense stuff...
Reminds me of an article that one of Fred Phelps' sons wrote about he and his siblings' childhood. Fundamentalist Baptist churches are a fucking pox on this country.

I don't blame you for being a militant atheist. I used to be one myself, but now I'm just apathetic. I was never subjected to any kind of consistent indoctrination or abuse, though there were a few isolated incidents.

I remember some of our conversations on MSN back in the day, and you mentioned you were on the fence about the existence of God, and that some hurts run too deep to shake off forever. Does that still stand?

My mom was in a similar situation as a child, and for the longest time she distanced herself from any religion (other than half-assedly practicing Buddhism for a time). Then as she got older, she became increasingly more "spiritual" (and coincidentally, more racist). She's now a devout Jew, and despite raising me not to believe in God, she now pities me for not having faith in a higher power.
Posted 04-18-2012 at 11:59 AM by Sekto Springs

STM's Avatar
I remember you writing briefly about your childhood with the IFB in 2009, in a God Debate, and honestly I was so dumb-founded about your experience I didn't believe you, and I think I voiced that, and got a deserving bollocking from everyone for it. Hearing it again, in such detail makes me cringe. It just sounds torturous. To twist God's words, if you believe in them, like that, to the point that beating little children is justifiable, is just unreal.
Posted 04-18-2012 at 12:05 PM by STM

OANST's Avatar
I'll just put the second part of it here.

Part 2: Emotional Abuse

I want to stress that I was not a trouble maker as a kid. I was very respectful. It was all "Yes sirs, and no ma'ams" with me. I didn't break things. I didn't curse. I didn't talk back. I did my home work, and got perfect grades. But I was not a Christian. And it was clear that they could tell just by talking to me. I was always an extremely open and honest kid, and if something didn't make sense I would ask about it. If I didn't understand the answer, I would say so, and would give the reason why it didn't make sense to me. Back then, I did this without really realizing that I was making myself to be a problem, but as time wore on, and I became more resentful of these people, these questions became my weapon against them. I could phrase them innocently while down deep I was smirking, knowing that I was winning this battle, and it felt good. Of course, this was the only sort of battle I could win against them, and so far in my life they have still won. But I'll get to that later.

These people teach children to hate. It is their central goal, and they never fail. Either the child will learn to hate what they hate, or the child will learn to hate them. Every sermon given is a hate speech. They openly despised blacks, homosexuals, and jews, and relished in the thought of them going to hell. They would force us a few times a month to walk door to door passing out these things called "Chic Tracks" (look them up some time, they are disturbing as hell). The idea was always that we would go out and save souls, but instead it was just an excuse to gather new reasons to hate people. We never had any contact with non church members besides these outings, and if the people didn't instantly agree with everything we had to say about god, or if they didn't agree to come to our church we would have to listen to a tirade by the adult that we were with about how sinful their lifestyle was, and how their flesh would be seared in the pits of eternal darkness. This sort of hatred is catching. It's almost fun. It's an us against them situation, and they want to destroy everything that is good and wholesome. It draws you in. These hate filled walks were fascinating even after I stopped believing. At least they were being cruel and awful to someone other than me for a change.

They are manipulative, as well. They would sit me down, and try to "reason" with me sometimes. They would explain to me that my behavior was hurting my mother, as she would cry, and say that she had failed as a parent. This was probably the most painful of their tactics, and often it would work. I would cry, and tell her how sorry I was, and things would actually get better for a bit. Of course, I would always find some way to transgress on some obscure, arcane rule, and it would be over.

There are some other things that really don't make any sense to me. At the end of the school year, the science teacher told me I could take a rabbit home with me. He told me that it doesn't move around much. I got it home, picked it up, and urine just streamed off of it. It never moved the back part of it's body, and finally we poked it with a needle to see if there would be a reaction. There was none. I had to take the rabbit to be put to sleep the next day. To this day, I still don't know if the science teacher was just a fucking moron, or if he played a cruel joke on me.

Random little facts: Girls could not wear pants, and their dresses had to cover their ankles. Boys were not allowed to have hair past a certain length. If you were caught in a movie theater you would be expelled. We were all forbidden to listen to any music that had drums in it. Any music or reading material's sole purpose had to be talking about god.

I used to sneak books home by shoving them down my pants, and then removing the dust covers of religious books, and placing them in there. That worked for a while, but eventually I got caught, and had to find better hiding spots for books.
Posted 04-18-2012 at 12:11 PM by OANST

OANST's Avatar
MM: I don't think it sounded pretentious.

Sekto: I'm not on any fence. I am quite sure of my allegiance to Satan, at this point.

STM: Don't worry about it. It seems unreal to me, so I can only imagine how outlandish it seems to those who didn't live with it.
Posted 04-18-2012 at 12:17 PM by OANST

MeechMunchie's Avatar
If I may ask, what provoked you to talk about this now?
Posted 04-18-2012 at 12:46 PM by MeechMunchie

Sekto Springs's Avatar
:
Sekto: I'm not on any fence. I am quite sure of my allegiance to Satan, at this point.
Oh, okay. And to think I was so nervous about inviting you to our local faction's orgy & hot wings weekend bonanza.
Posted 04-18-2012 at 12:50 PM by Sekto Springs

OANST's Avatar
I think about my life a lot, and how I managed to make such a mess of it, and of course, these thoughts lead me back to my childhood. I'll talk more about how it relates who I am today in another update to this.
Posted 04-18-2012 at 12:53 PM by OANST

Havoc's Avatar
Usually when I think about my life and how things seem messed up, I like to turn it around and tell myself that despite everything that happened to me, I'm still here. Where others might grab the bottle or drugs to forget their past, I got trough it, beat it and got stronger for it.

I suggest you do the same, OANST. You've had some really rough times, in your childhood and recently, but you are still here. By a hair, but you're here . You have every right to be proud of that, no reason to be modest about it.
Posted 04-18-2012 at 02:06 PM by Havoc

To be honest I never thought you'd be the type of person to break like that, I always loved your jokes in the sense that I was jealous... In a way.
Posted 04-18-2012 at 02:30 PM by sheridanm962

Bullet Magnet's Avatar
Fuck!

I've heard this story told many times by many people, and it never gets easier to listen to.
Posted 04-18-2012 at 03:18 PM by Bullet Magnet

OANST's Avatar
Part 3: Sexual Abuse and The Lasting Effects of Growing Up IFB

Sexuality was strictly forbidden. I'm sure that pretty much goes without saying, but I promise you that you don't understand how deep this goes. I was forbidden from playing Final Fantasy: Mystic Quest because it had the word "fantasy" in the title (I had already beaten the game when this was discovered, so woohoo, that goes in the win column). To the IFB, a girl wearing anything other than a long dress that also covers the neck is a whore. Pants? But you can see the crotch in pants. Whore.

At one point, when I was maybe eight or nine, my mom started to get suspicious that I was masturbating. She accused me of it, and I didn't even know what the word meant. Well, long story short, for quite a few years following that conversation I had to wear full length, one piece pajamas to bed. You know, so I couldn't get to my dick.

Here's a story that may seem familiar to people that read my blog. In IFB's they have a thing called AWANA (Approved Workmen Are Not Ashamed), which is basically the scouts for IFB kids. We wouldn't tie knots, or learn useful skills, though. Instead we would win badges for memorizing bible verses and saving souls and shit. Anyway, they would have contests to see who could memorize the most verses, and on one particular occasion I was the lucky winner which meant that I got to go out for pizza with one of the AWANA's leaders. He picked me up at my house in his convertible, and we went to Pizza Hut. After eating he wanted to take me back to his house to show me the place, and play some video games. When we got there, his wife was there too. They didn't have any kids. He and I went into a separate room to play games. At one point, he also started asking me about masturbation. I was very uncomfortable with the conversation, and became even more so when he started asking if I wanted him to show me how to do it. I really have no idea how to word this, so I'll just write it quickly, and bluntly. He convinced me to take out my penis, tried to jerk me off, and got mad at me because I didn't get a hard on. Told me that he couldn't help me I didn't let him. I eventually told my mother about this, but she didn't believe me. He eventually stopped coming to the church, and at this point I don't remember his name, or even what he looked like. I just remember that he had a convertible.

At some point in my childhood, I developed a nervous twitch in my eyes. I am terrified of social interaction, and have no idea how to act around other people. The twitch mostly went away over time, but came back with a vengeance when April left me. I can't handle stress at all. When I become stressed I get this huge ball of tension in me, and tend to lash out. Some of you have experienced this first hand. I am obsessed with sex, particularly sex that humiliates the woman. I gave up trying to do anything at some point, and it just became a way of life. I hate myself, but still tend to think that I'm better than everyone around me. I have no friends, and really no family to speak of. I've wanted to die since I was about twelve. I have no skills that could help me get ahead in life. I can't say that all of this stems from my childhood. I don't know. But I know that I'm not like other people, and I never have been.
Posted 04-19-2012 at 08:26 AM by OANST

MeechMunchie's Avatar
To quote a certain author, there's nobody you-er than you. Everybody's broken to some degree, and everybody has varying perceptions of their own faults. If someone thinks they have no faults, that's often the way in which they're broken. You may hate yourself, but some people like you, and the vast majority of the global population are ambivalent. That works for me sometimes. If I was really that much of a screw-up, I'd notice more people complaining.

And yes, you probably feel like the only sane man and the world revolves around you sometimes. But that is the natural human state. Stand on a hill, you see the same distance in all directions. That puts you in the exact centre of the visible world. What else were our monkey brains supposed to assume? You can't help being a protaganist in your own life, so trying to find things in this seemingly useless individual that you like is all you can do if you want to make it through the movie.

Or something like that, I'm not so good at metaphors, and it usually sounds condescending when people try to inspire the depressed. I'm not a part of your life, but sometimes I wish I was, just so I could be more helpful than this. But you're not a lost cause, and you never will be as long as there's somebody close enough (i.e. not me) to support you. And I flat-out refuse to believe you have literally nobody like that.

Also, this is more about Part 2: Do you think other kids there had doubts about their faith, and were too afraid to voice them; or were they all to rigidly indoctrinated?
Posted 04-19-2012 at 01:13 PM by MeechMunchie
Updated 04-19-2012 at 01:16 PM by MeechMunchie

MA's Avatar
absolutely disgusting. there's no excuse for it. it's abuse.
Posted 04-19-2012 at 06:38 PM by MA

Nate's Avatar
I find this completely disturbing. I went to an Ultra-Orthodox school myself and witnessed a few similar things, though not near as bad as what you've described.. It just means I'm even more horrified by how shitty things were, and I presume still are, for kids in the IFB community.
Posted 04-20-2012 at 05:06 AM by Nate
Updated 04-20-2012 at 05:30 AM by Nate

OANST's Avatar
After talking with some people that lived through similar circumstances, I think I may have post traumatic stress disorder. In their words: "Men and women go into the military and their life is in danger 24/7. They live in a state of hyper-vigilance. They may do this for 2-4 years at a time -- as grown men/women. They come home with traumatic PTSD and all sorts of mental illnesses from the trauma.

So now think of it from an IFB *CHILD'S* point-of-view:

Parents are BEATING little toddlers until they are bruised and bloodied. The child's life is in danger, so they live in that same state of hyper-vigilance. Some have even died during these beatings. (How many of us had fevers and stomach aches after a beating? That was our body fighting for survival). And we were going through this not as ADULTS, but at 2, 3, 4 and 5 YEARS OLD -- in the earliest stages of development.

And imagine this too -- something we were discussing this past weekend:

Imagine parents of TEENAGERS, not only being given free reign to BEAT their teenagers, but actually TOLD by their pastors/college presidents that they SHOULD be doing that?? Parents and teenagers -- and **FREE REIGN** to BEAT them? Good grief! A recipe for disaster -- with ANY parent -- even good ones!!"

I've looked into it, and I seem to have all the symptoms. I'm not into self diagnosing, but I think that given my mental state, this is something worth looking into.
Posted 04-20-2012 at 07:11 AM by OANST

STM's Avatar
Maybe it might be worth seeing a psychiatrist if that's the case? I reckon they can untangle that mess for you perhaps.
Posted 04-20-2012 at 08:30 AM by STM

OANST's Avatar
I appreciate that we have a community here that I could feel comfortable enough with to share these things. I'm not looking for pity. That's not why I shared this. I need to get over this shit. I always knew that these people had stolen my childhood from me, but I've only recently begun to see that they have been stealing my adulthood as well. There is an argument to be made that I am allowing them to do this, and I won't argue against that. But I don't know how to make it stop. I'm so very sad, and have been for as long as I can remember, but I am grateful for small things, such as the people in this forum, who have allowed me to be a snarky fuck, as I think you can see that I generally mean no harm, but have also forgiven some of the nastier shit that I've spewed out. I'm sorry to anyone that I may have hurt.

I'm still going to be a snarky fuck, though.
Posted 04-20-2012 at 08:30 AM by OANST

MeechMunchie's Avatar
Well, if you're ever going to get out of this hyperdefensive rut, you're going to need something stable and secure to lean on.
Posted 04-20-2012 at 09:11 AM by MeechMunchie

Wings of Fire's Avatar
Yeah, I'm pretty sure everyone on the forum knows how to roll with your punch now.

I don't pretend to be able to sympathize with you, and I'm certainly not going to try, but with all this recent stuff with Abbey and April and Shannon I hope your life has regained some stability and balance. I'd echo STM in saying you should seriously look into psychiatric counseling when/if you're ready for it.
Posted 04-20-2012 at 10:14 AM by Wings of Fire

OddjobAbe's Avatar
I think it's concerning that these religious groups form in the first place, let alone have influence over people. It seems to me like the authority figures within them are as mentally unhealthy as the people they turn out. It's sad to hear the shit they put people through, and the effect it has on them later, as you're demonstrating. I hope you manage to sort out your problems as much as they can be sorted out.
Posted 04-20-2012 at 10:24 AM by OddjobAbe

STM's Avatar
Is it well known that this sort of thing goes on by the way OANST? If it's not, perhaps you could highlight the issue by seeking to put your story, as much as you'd be willing to make public, into a local paper or something? I actually know very little about the movement, the wikipedia page isn't even a paragraph long.

e: http://www.baptistdeception.com/
Posted 04-20-2012 at 12:20 PM by STM

OANST's Avatar
It's not a very well kept secret, and no, I have no intention of "going public".
Posted 04-20-2012 at 12:22 PM by OANST

 

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