"Earthlings"

Matriar · #1 04-11-2008, 04:15 PM

I love this movie.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...96533661048967

(In case I must stop making threads like that, feel free to send me a ban-warning!)

***Nate*** · #2 04-11-2008, 08:47 PM

Feel free to make threads about documentaries but please try to make a discussion about it; don't just present the doco without any context or question.

mudling · #3 04-11-2008, 11:23 PM

wow... I was aware things like this happen, from eskimos clubbing seals and tricking wolves into licking knives untill they die, to mother bigs being strapped in small cubicules, unable to move.
But not to this degree.

I wish there was more I could do, I don't have any pets, and my parents are hell stuborn, altough I'm considering becoming a vegetarian as soon as I stop growing, not buying from them won't stop them, but it'll help, they do it becuase of the consumers after all.

Strike Witch · #4 04-12-2008, 02:12 AM

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stuburb

......What?

mudling · #5 04-12-2008, 03:34 AM

Arghh, spelling era and typo combined, sorry.
Oh, and I fixed it.

Matriar · #6 04-12-2008, 09:37 AM

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Feel free to make threads about documentaries but please try to make a discussion about it; don't just present the doco without any context or question.

Oh yeah, sorry! ^^
I was pretty upset after I watched this movie, I forgot that this is a forum and therefore for discussions.

Okay... I can't really come up with a question to that movie, it should have said anything.

Hm, maybe I should mention that I pretty much hate the bible which made almost any of us a "speciesist". Luckily, I'm an atheist and love animals. Better than humans, actually.
(Which doesn't mean that I hate humans, hate should be something personal and not something you do because of what you've heard/seen/read.)

Also, I want to say that I'm damn grateful for the fact that animals are no humans. Imagine a cow (or bull) taking away your mom's child, killing it (slowly and painfully as in this case) and taking away the milk of your mom for own use and PROFIT while your mom keeps being in that too small jail for the rest of her humble life.
And this is the most harmless example for what humanity does to animals.

So I have perfect understanding for vegetarians and vegans.

mudling · #7 04-12-2008, 02:50 PM

Um no, the old testament may dabble into why man is God's chosen creature, etc. but it was realy the Roman pope's that misinterpreted this, making out that the earth was the center of the universe, etc. I don't know too much, but I wouldn't blame the bible completly, sure it created our ethical laws, but towards animals?

Besides, in the times of the bibles, they hardly treated animals worse than we do now, sure we can say they were less concious of animals etc. but after looking at the video, can we really say we are concious?

Also, sacrifice was made out to be not needed in the bible, because Jesus sacrificed himself for us.
I'm realy not trying to convert anyone (I have a freind who does it all the time, I know how annoying it is), but I am deffensive about my beliefs.

Matriar · #8 04-12-2008, 04:19 PM

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I don't know too much, but I wouldn't blame the bible completly, sure it created our ethical laws, but towards animals?

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Besides, in the times of the bibles, they hardly treated animals worse than we do now,

For jews it's still a sacred act to bleed animals alive. And jesus was considered as the king of the jews, from what I've heard?
This does not mean I hate jews (for heaven's sake, no! I hate what happened to them while Worldwar II)!

I only want to say that people didn't really respect animals in that bible country in older times either.

I really like the religion and subtitles of the American Indians.
Did you know that they didn't know the word "animal" when white men said that to them the first time? There was no word in their language that meant animal. Do you know why? They saw them as their brothers and sisters and not as a different species. Gotta love such beliefs.

Strike Witch · #9 04-12-2008, 04:42 PM

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I hate jews

D=

You monster!

Salamander · #10 04-12-2008, 04:48 PM

People > Animals.

Firstly, there is nothing wrong in killing animals. They kill each other, they kill us, it's the natural order of things. We are at the top of the food chain, so we can do as we please. Why should we spare a thought for an animal? They would kill us given the chance, and for exactly the same reasons too; it's necessary for survival. Though in saying this, I also don't approve of cruelty towards animals, that is sick and perverse.

Secondly, how can you say "They were cruel towards animals in the times of the Bible"? If God told you to go sacrifice an animal, what would you do? Say no? That's foolishness.

mudling · #11 04-12-2008, 05:41 PM

Yeah, umm, what about the inuits, who are related to the american indains aren't they?
As I said before, they have many inhumane (how ironic) ways of killing their prey, and such practises are continued for the sake of tradition, when they could just go to the supermarket and spare a seal or wolf.
Also, the aborignies of Australia have been blamed for wiping out our mega fuana, since they were no match for the intelligence of man, they killed them off, and then they introduced the dingo, which killed off the tasmain tiger in mainland australia, of course, the white settlers came and made things worse.
Jesus was indeed king of the jews, but since his people betrayed him, through his life, a new religeon was extablished, CHRISTianity, or something like that.
I also beleive there's a bible passage about how sacrfice wasn't needed, something about a synagogue and a red curtain, maybe I'm wrong.
Also, Salamander is right, and aswell, everyone else was sacrficing aniamals, as well as the Aztecs (which are native americans). And yes, they'd kill us if they had the chance. It's just we should treat them much better than we do, and I completly disagree with slaughterhouses in general. Ok, we rely on killing them, but as the docomentary said, we should treat them humainly.

***Nate*** · #12 04-13-2008, 12:09 AM

*read thread with equal parts horror and amusement*

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For jews it's still a sacred act to bleed animals alive. And jesus was considered as the king of the jews, from what I've heard?

No on so many levels. Jesus was called the king of the Jews by his followers but he was never widely held so. As for bleeding animals alive, that's about as wrong as you can get. Judaism was one of, if not the, first cultures that had laws against cruelty to animals. The manner of killing animals for food was specifically designed to be as quick and painless as possible. You're possibly getting confused by the fact that the blood must be drained from the body after it is dead, due to the biblical injunction against consuming animal blood. There was ritual sacrifice in the ancient temple which was destroyed in 72 A.D. but it has not been practised since then. Prayer has taken its place since then.

GlacierDragon · #13 04-13-2008, 03:15 AM

I agree with salamander to some extent. animals kill other animals in the wild, but most of the time this is for food or for self defence. its ok for us to kill animals, but only for food or to protect ourselves. when people start killing things for the fun of it, well that is just wrong. and i hate animal cruelty in everyway possible.

mudling · #14 04-13-2008, 04:53 AM

My last post was realy rushed, I had to leave for work.
I disagree completly, and it is not fair at all to blame religeon, religeon is as much as fault as anything else.
We do need animals to survive, but it has only latley becoming so noticably bad, and we are becoming more aware. Religeon was created and extablished long before we had the technology to create slaughter houses and research labs (Both of which are explored in OW games funnily enough).
It's our cultures fault, and religeon is part of our culture.
It is not fair or resonable to blame it, IMO at least.
Continuing on, I disagree with the human> animal statement made by Salamnder on one level, yes we are able to outsmart them and therefore out compete them, but we are animals, so therefore humans= animals.
I also disagree a bit with the whole speacist statement, I mean, isn't the correct term racism (since human is a race), or would that only occur if something is as itelligent as us (but saying this would be doing what the documentary calls speacism).
That being said, I agree with everything else, it is realy disturbing me, even a day after I've watched it.

Matriar · #15 04-13-2008, 11:00 AM

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Firstly, there is nothing wrong in killing animals.

I did not say killing animals we're going to eat is wrong.

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We are at the top of the food chain, so we can do as we please.

Hehe, another speciesist.

Go jump in the ozean and eat a shark. Go in the jungle and eat a tiger.

Without cheating, like using guns and other weapons. Come natural, to find out about the real food chain of nature.

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Yeah, umm, what about the inuits, who are related to the american indains aren't they?

Correct. And inuits are related to Russian, and Russian are related to Europe... we are all one big family.

Hobo · #16 04-13-2008, 11:06 AM

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Without cheating, like using guns and other weapons. Come natural, to find out about the real food chain of nature.

Hypocrite. Technology is part of what makes us better than the animals.

Besides, I could take a tiger.

Wings of Fire · #17 04-13-2008, 11:33 AM

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Without cheating, like using guns and other weapons. Come natural, to find out about the real food chain of nature.

Cheating? I think not. As we're all animals this means that all our attributes contribute to the food chain. A tiger's strength lies in its raw power, a cheetah's in it's speed and a human's strength lies in our opposable thumbs and our ingenuity, because of our ingenuity we can make tools and because of our thumbs we can use them. Would you consider an archer fish or a chameleon a cheater because of their special abilities?

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Correct. And inuits are related to Russian, and Russian are related to Europe... we are all one big family.

And we're all from Africa where, correct me if I'm wrong, they were catching saber tooth tigers in traps and eating them in time before time.

We are the earths apex predator because of the abilities (Insert your own personal belief here) has granted us and since we are the first sentient species to be so, we have the responsibility of caring for and cultivating the earth as a farmer would (or should) do to his/her livestock, I am against animal cruelty (To both animals we will eat and ones we wont) not because I belive animals are equal to us (With the possible exception of great apes and dolphines) but because I view the human mindset that tries to get the last bit of juicy flavor out of some food by exposing the animal to horrific torture, vile.

And putting dogs with broken legs in gas chambers is just wrong, period.

Matriar · #18 04-13-2008, 12:27 PM

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Technology is part of what makes us better than the animals.

The joke is: Anything we've invented we've learned from the animals.

Spider= Net.
Fish= Flippers.
Planes= Birds (and maybe sharks).
Many rodents and other animals= supply for cold times when food is rare.
And many many other things.

It's a very simple fact, sorry.

The only thing that some dork wanted was to control fire. And the whole thing started with that. Melting metal, form it to whatever they wanted,...
animals are afraid of fire and therefore, nothing bad happened. No weapons, guns, bombs. You name it.

And does destroying nature really make us better than the animals? I thought you were more mature.

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we can make tools and because of our thumbs we can use them.

Haha, then you should watch out for rodents and monkeys since they also have thumbs to use, they might get the same idea to create weapons and make war back...

Strike Witch · #19 04-13-2008, 01:09 PM

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The joke is: Anything we've invented we've learned from the animals.

Spider= Net.
Fish= Flippers.
Planes= Birds (and maybe sharks).
Many rodents and other animals= supply for cold times when food is rare.
And many many other things.

It's a very simple fact, sorry.

Yes. And it makes us better then them because we beat their arses with their own inventions, only better. =D

Hobo · #20 04-13-2008, 01:54 PM

I never saw any animal with a laptop.

I think I just won this thread.

Strike Witch · #21 04-13-2008, 02:14 PM

Hell, I've never seen an animal with a Lightbulb or a Refrigerator either.

More win 4 Hobo.

Bullet Magnet · #22 04-13-2008, 06:47 PM

What passes for human intelligence is the only advantage the human race has on Earth. Take that away, and we're extinct. It's not fair to condemn us for using it to survive unless you also condemn the unique adaptation or combination of adaptations exhibited by every other species. Send man into the wild without his tools, you might as well set your dog free without his nose. And his legs.

Salamander · #23 04-13-2008, 08:37 PM

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Hell, I've never seen an animal with a Lightbulb or a Refrigerator either.

More win 4 Hobo.

Glow Worm

mudling · #24 04-13-2008, 09:41 PM

Actually some of it is co-inidental, or through natural selection, animals have evolved to the best body shapes, etc. that suit their environment, we therefore creates a machine which best suits their environment, the enviroment being the same will mean the machine and animals will look simular (but not exactly anyway, like how birds wings are much different from planes wings), and at best, we were inspired by what was around us, by using our intelligence.

I don't think it's so much as Hobo winning the thread, as Stranger's Maid continually loosing. :P But he is right of course.

Oh, and it is our intelligence, and how we work together, so of course, if a man was thrown into the ocean or jungle (which isn't the modern man's natural environment anyway, we've adapted to a level where we are suited to our own environment) he is going to die pretty soon, intelligence of not, give him a group, and there's a much bigger chance of the group survivng, give them their environment, and they will thrive.

I orignally thought that as humanity increases in power, etc. the average man is getting weaker, and dumber, because of how dependant we are on others, but realy, that's how we've always been, it's just gone to a much larger degree.

Anyway, now I'm going off topic, so I'll end with this. We need to respect the animals, as we share the same planet as them, we are all earthlings (Did I just quote the documentary, oops... :P)

Matriar · #25 04-14-2008, 05:07 AM

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I never saw any animal with a laptop.

That is a good point.

I haven't seen an animal that creates viruses either.

Bullet Magnet · #26 04-14-2008, 06:13 AM

Pigs. Can catch both avian and human flu viruses, and if the same pig cells are infected by both, can blend together to produce a new and virulent strain of avian flu virus that can spread easily from person to person. And, presumably, pig to pig.

Laser · #27 04-14-2008, 07:13 AM

Now Bullet Magnet has just won this thread

and Computer > Anthill btw

Matriar · #28 04-14-2008, 08:40 AM

To not cause a fight with this topic I made, I want to get rid of one last opinion of mine and leave this thread before getting into too much trouble, or getting banned.

Now let's all sit back and imagine there were no animals, from the beginning or from now on.

If they weren't there from the beginning, we wouldn't have gotten inspired to invent the small inventions (like nets, planes, you name it) and we wouldn't have a lot of awesome tools we have now.
Plus, in the earth there wouldn't have been worms (and other things) that dung and what would help plants to "eat" from the place where they grow. So all plants wouldn't have lived without animals, and animals wouldn't have lived without plants.
And without that circle, mankind wouldn't have evolved either.

If there were no animals from now on: no clothes, no food, no products which are made by animals. Now remove all the food that contains milk, eggs, meat, (and organs, skin, bones). There would be removed quite a lot! No classic sandwich, cake, candy, pizza, sushi, hamburger, ... counting all the food would be wasting of time, there are thousands of them that contain something that comes from animals.
Okay, I do take back the part with the clothes. Luckily, there are many things that are made with plants. I'm happy to wear them. Also, they don't get broken as fast as fur and leather (that's not only my opinion, it's a proven fact).

My conclusion: We are all extremly close connected to animals no matter how cool humans consider themself to be.

And I don't want to "win" any thread with my opinion. That thread was made to let you know about what I think.

And no, I'm neither a vegetarian nor a vegan and I also don't want you to become one with that thread.
Would be cool, though. But that's not the message I wanted to bring with this thread.

*runs away quickly*

Bullet Magnet · #29 04-14-2008, 10:22 AM

Strike Witch · #30 04-14-2008, 01:16 PM

Bullet Magnet wins again.

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My conclusion: We are all extremly close connected to animals no matter how cool humans consider themself to be.

It's not that simple. It's more like "We are in our current position now because we figured out spears and fire and killed, captured, bred, strip-mined, dynamited and shot at everything that got in our way."

And thank god for that.