Abe HD Ideas

[DarkHoodness]

Now that's an idea for if you really wanted to involve the community - Have a competition for who can come up with the best "Idle" lines.

[Crashpunk]

YES! Now that is a idea

[Manco]

The only comment I really want to add to this thread is: Please don't fuck up the atmosphere.

The eerie silence of Necrum, the oppressive smoke rising from factories, the tense midnight escape through No-Man's Land, the serene-yet-unnerving silence of the empty wilderness, the menacing machinery dominating factory environments.

Everything is built up beautifully in these games. It comes from the sublime art direction, the uncompromising attention to detail, the intertwining of gameplay and storytelling, the vast landscapes briefly glimpsed in the far distance, but most of all the excellent worldbuilding.

And then we had Munch's Oddysee.

Don't be like Munch's Oddysee.

[erwinraaben55]

I do not need too many fancy things, just more of what we were used to in AO and AE.

Needs more flying sligs. I love to control and hear those.
And slogs to contol with sligs.

Bigger groups of Mudokons to follow you, and that you can slap them, and they start to riot. Oh I had so much fun with Exoddus. but those groups were so small .

Just make sure the game gets a 16+ or better rating for the amount of cruelty and gore. Do not like the kiddy style of Munch. Humps of flesh should be thrown towards the screen (would be awesome if that would be in 3d on a 3d tv).

[AvengingGibbons]

I'd recomend spending your efforts on the visuals, to get the realtime graphics as close as possible to that of a pre-rendered environment. Don't change the game too much from the original, but do add things that would have appeared in the original if it had been technically possible at the time.

More animations for actions. Like, when Abe runs and jumps up a ledge, you expect his body to swing a lot more as he grabs onto the ledge; you could have him run and jump to grap a ledge, and his momentum swings his body into the side of the ledge and he grunts as he slams against it. The animation should vary depending on the height of the ledge. For example, if the ledge is about shoulder height, then Abe should be able to jump up, and not so much have to grab the ledge rather he thrusts himself up with his hands with relative ease.

When bombs explode, Abe's knock down should be a reaction to the direction from which the explosion happens. Sligs should attempt to throw bombs back. Sligs should see the bomb land infront of them and go 'huh?' or they should panick, some should scream/cry, some should be cocky and just laugh to themselves. i agree with Mac Sirloin that the sligs should appear to have their own personalities, maybe portrayed using different attitudes towards events (some show fear, some laugh, some cry, some are clumbsy, some are less intelligent, some are bossy, some are bullies, some are push overs), and their mental states. The bombs should glow red a second before exploding. Abe should be seen to activate the bomb. Abe should shield himself with his arms when bombs explode at a distance that isnt near enough to cause a knock-down.

The classic gameplay and visuals of the original with these sorts of dynamic animations would make for a great remake I think. I like (Mac Sirloin's?) suggestion for letting the sligs communicate with one another, have some banter amongst themselves, which could relate to the story. Like, Abe could walk past a slig who is on the phone listening to orders to start a search for Abe, near the beginning of the game.

[enchilado]

Please don't fuck up the atmosphere.

This. Several times, in fact, for emphasis:

Please don't fuck up the atmosphere.

Please don't fuck up the atmosphere.

Please don't fuck up the atmosphere.

Please don't fuck up the atmosphere.

Please don't fuck up the atmosphere.

[Mikaeel]

Maybe they could also add some unlockable bonus rounds to test your skill at the game. Like a level where you take a slig and see how many muds you can kill in a minute. Or take a grenade and see how many orbs you can explode in a minute. Short little games like that would be cool to add. Add a timer in there to record your time with some trophies to go along with it and that'd be pretty sweet.

An unlockable theater instead of one that needs a code would be pretty sweet too, and remastered of course.

I guess that's it for my ideas : )

[Sekto Springs]

The achievement about not killing smoking sligs is a great idea. Inversely, you could have an achievement for killing all the smoking sligs called something like "Beat the Habit" or "Cold Turkey".

Also, when you get cacked by a scrab or paramite and they start to eat your fresh carcass, amp up the gore. Connect the animations. Have the scrab pulling out abe's intestines only to have them snap back like elastic bands. Have paramites scrape all the meat off abe's face and plucking out his eyeballs with their fingers like cocktail olives.

[Andrelvis]

I'll buy anything with Oddworld in its title to be honest.

Same here. Exploit us

[Nate]

I disagree with every point about talking Sligs. For one thing, giving them intelligible conversation humanises and de-creepifies them. Also, the slig dialogue in MO was so corny and crap. And unless JAW hire a full-time writer only for the incidental dialogue, it's going to start repeating incredibly quickly, which immediately breaks the atmosphere and destroys suspension of disbelief.

[Bullet Magnet]

Also, when you get cacked by a scrab or paramite and they start to eat your fresh carcass, amp up the gore. Connect the animations. Have the scrab pulling out abe's intestines only to have them snap back like elastic bands. Have paramites scrape all the meat off abe's face and plucking out his eyeballs with their fingers like cocktail olives.

You are joking, right?

And unless JAW hire a full-time writer only for the incidental dialogue, it's going to start repeating incredibly quickly, which immediately breaks the atmosphere and destroys suspension of disbelief.

I'll do it.

[Sekto Springs]

I'm not joking. Having Scrabs just bite at the air around your corpse with no indication they're actually eating you may work with a sprite-based 90's game, but not HD.

I disagree with every point about talking Sligs. For one thing, giving them intelligible conversation humanises and de-creepifies them. Also, the slig dialogue in MO was so corny and crap. And unless JAW hire a full-time writer only for the incidental dialogue, it's going to start repeating incredibly quickly, which immediately breaks the atmosphere and destroys suspension of disbelief.

You're right about the creepiness. But I think for consistency's sake, slig banter wouldn't be altogether inappropriate. In just about every FMV, sligs are having a discussion in some terrible, unintelligible, guttural language. I think recording 5-10 of these "nonsense" conversations, acted with a twinge of mischief and underhandedness, would not disrupt the atmosphere too much.

Not every slig you came across would be an insufferable chatterbox. This would only happen once in a while when they're idle in a trusted environment. I think if two sligs took turns beating a mudokon scrub while laughing and swapping disparaging remarks, it would add to the creep factor. The ones posted in the temples or at the free-fire zones would be no-nonsense and maintain that creepy stoicism because they're more on-guard in such treacherous territory.

Expanding on what AvengingGibbons suggested; if the default banter seems too tiresome, maybe just have some dialogue of interest at certain points in the game. Overhear slig's discussing the "escapee", etc.

Of course, maintaining this variation in slig personalities could be a bit of a programming nightmare. So there's that.

[Kinto]

I agree with most of the ideas. Just please keep the atmosphere! AO's atmosphere is very unique! It added alot of depth to the story and quite frankly, is what keeps bringing me back for more. Keep it realistic, not cartoony like in MO. This game could revolutionise 2D platforming!

[DarkHoodness]

I disagree with every point about talking Sligs. For one thing, giving them intelligible conversation humanises and de-creepifies them. Also, the slig dialogue in MO was so corny and crap. And unless JAW hire a full-time writer only for the incidental dialogue, it's going to start repeating incredibly quickly, which immediately breaks the atmosphere and destroys suspension of disbelief.

The thing about Sligs is that they've already been humanised a bit, unless you're not familiar with Oddworld at all and see them for the first time. Sligs were creepier in AO probably because the first time you played it, you knew very little about them - But even so, they had gamespeak, they panicked when Abe chanted, you constantly found them sleeping on the job, and in the FMVs they're briefly seen talking to each other and cowering before Molluck, so it's not as if they've never had emotion - And for this I've never really seen them as being too creepy. The only creepy things about them is that they're very efficient and deadly killers. Oh, and how they laugh after killing their own kind (when Abe possesses them).

Occasional (but not constant) idle dialogue between enemies in games can definitely add to atmosphere if done correctly, but I'm too tired to think of good examples at the moment. It could be used to reflect their cruelty and lack of compassion though, as Sekto Springs said.

EDIT: Something I missed from AE is how Sligs would react to Abe when Abe used Gamespeak near them in AO - That would be nice to see carried across to Abe HD, it was a nice little touch.

@Sekto Springs - This is meant to be an Oddworld game, not Mortal Kombat. A little gore like what exists in the original AO and AE should be perfectly fine for keeping the atmosphere slightly scary rather than cartoonish, but of course it shouldn't be overdone.

[Never Sleeper]

I appreciate most of the ideas, especially the last comment of Sekto Springs about the appeareance of Slig dialogue, but one main factor for me is the music.

If you have the possebility please don't change the style of the first two Abe ingame soundtrack. Maybe it's the most time only 3 or 4 notes which changes in a litte synthesiszer and some birds are tweeting but this minimalism fits perfectly to the ambiance of this great environments.

[AvengingGibbons]

I disagree with every point about talking Sligs. For one thing, giving them intelligible conversation humanises and de-creepifies them. Also, the slig dialogue in MO was so corny and crap. And unless JAW hire a full-time writer only for the incidental dialogue, it's going to start repeating incredibly quickly, which immediately breaks the atmosphere and destroys suspension of disbelief.

Maybe it would better suit an Exodus remake? I get what you mean. Like in stockyard escape, all you see is their glowing evil-red visors, and there's complete silence as they stand still, till they unpredictably swivel round, coupled with the sudden sound of their screeching mechanical legs as they move across the screen, and then he stops, and the silence resumes. This makes the sligs seem like a creature designed only to kill, taking military-like marches. And knowing of their little brain power takes away any hope you might have of them showing you any mercy. An unforgiving programmed killer.

...Could be wise to not try to humanise them. Good call Nate You could have them talking as Abe enters a new area, like a live cut scene, but not during gameplay. That way, the dialogue is relative to the current events and is only played once, and is not repetitive. On second thought, I did prefer the Exodus stylings, how it brought in a more light-hearted comical atmosphere, yet still had the necessary realness to keep the player in anticipation.

[Sekto Springs]

When I first played the game, I thought sligs were robots. This was due in part to the mechanical legs, but largely to their complete lack of depth and humanity(sliganity?).

I think greater characterization is possible without diminishing the threat the sligs present. I understand what Nate is saying. Giving sligs more personality could potentially dampen that raw danger they made you feel. A soulless enemy is far scarier than one with a personality. This is why it's such a popular design choice to remove the eyes when creating a fearsome creature.
On that note, the early slig masks with the visor made the sligs far more intimidating than when they were given eyes. Perhaps to split the difference, add the personality but keep the visor.

If you have the possebility please don't change the style of the first two Abe ingame soundtrack. Maybe it's the most time only 3 or 4 notes which changes in a litte synthesiszer and some birds are tweeting but this minimalism fits perfectly to the ambiance of this great environments.

HUGE THIS^
Ellen Meijers' music has been a huge influence on the music I compose to this day. The minimalist charm and focus on percussion and world instruments is so incredibly iconic of Oddworld. I'd almost say you should re-use the old soundtracks, as they're so unique, but I know their quality isn't quite up to snuff with today's standards for game scores. If you remake it, don't do what they did with Tommy Tallarico's score for Earthworm Jim HD. Take the opportunity to recreate those bizarre nuances that made the original soundtrack so utterly amazing.

I've been working on some Oddworld-related music things for some time, including carefully constructed remakes of some of the pieces from AO and AE using world instruments. I feel like offering my services as a composer to JAW pro bono. That's not very professional though

[enchilado]

Sligs would be much scarier with visors, I think.

[AvengingGibbons]

Sligs would be much scarier with visors, I think.

+1

Remember, the sligs shouldn't be worried or scared of Abe in the first run of rupturefarms since Abe is a nobody. So if you're going to do dialogue, let it reflect that. The sligs would probably be laughing at the fact that an employee is trying to escape.

[DarkHoodness]

Ellen Meijers' music has been a huge influence on the music I compose to this day. The minimalist charm and focus on percussion and world instruments is so incredibly iconic of Oddworld. I'd almost say you should re-use the old soundtracks, as they're so unique, but I know their quality isn't quite up to snuff with today's standards for game scores. If you remake it, don't do what they did with Tommy Tallarico's score for Earthworm Jim HD. Take the opportunity to recreate those bizarre nuances that made the original soundtrack so utterly amazing.

If you have the possebility please don't change the style of the first two Abe ingame soundtrack. Maybe it's the most time only 3 or 4 notes which changes in a litte synthesiszer and some birds are tweeting but this minimalism fits perfectly to the ambiance of this great environments.

Agreed with these, AO's soundtrack is incredibly integral to its atmosphere.

[jumper]

I think the soundtrack could be improved by tweaking the dynamic aspect of it. For example, in the Scrabanian Nests, where the music would seem to restart every time you saw a scrab. The increased intensity was good, but it needed to flow more.

[AvengingGibbons]

I reallywant to see a preview of what the current in-game visuals are like! please???

+1 for keeping the original soundtracks

[Glitch]

Damn, I could have sworn I posted something else on here last night. I think I wrote it and then got distracted by something shiny.

Basically the gist of what I wrote was that, first and foremost as a designer my job is going to be to make the old game fit the new engine with as few changes as possible to the core game and storyline. However, enhanced visuals are a definite, at least from my point of view, so epic backgrounds, maybe even realtime cutscenes to replace the old ones, and general fleshing out of the world will be on my agenda at least.

Added canon isn't something that I think we should do with the first release; it's not our place to muck around with people's memories of this excellent franchise. After that however there's no limit to what we can do, providing we can keep it within the accepted history and rules of the Oddworld universe.

[Varrok]

Hmmm... to sum up what I agree with:

Please don't fuck up the atmosphere.

Don't be like Munch's Oddysee.

I just have one request for Abe HD and that is to keep the dark industrial look we're used to from the original games. No comical bull like in MO. I want a meat grinder to be a thing of terror and death. Not some weirdly shaped thing with red on it :P

-When Abe goes Shrykull, it should definitely be more epic. The little bastard is turning into a living god, after all.
- Sherry will hate me for this, but more blood and guts. Though I know you can only include so much gore without drifting into M-rated territory. I guess when Abe or other creatures hit the dirt after a long fall, a little gratuitous gore would be appreciated.////To be honest, i've NEVER thought about AO/AE as a childish game, it's far too mature for that... if you can't/don't exactly want to put more gore there, then just put not less than in original AO
- Atmospheric fx. I'm pretty certain you guys are already going to do this, but definitely enhanced lighting/atmosphere in the environments. A putrid haze rising from the decaying stockyards, dynamic fog and dust particles that move around the environment templates, moving clouds and wind-whipped flora, and small insects crawling and flying around. Immerse us into Oddworld!

When a slig dies, I hope they go black and sizzle like they used to, I know there's not realism behind it but hell I loved that.

I disagree with every point about talking Sligs. For one thing, giving them intelligible conversation humanises and de-creepifies them. Also, the slig dialogue in MO was so corny and crap.

The only creepy things about them is that they're very efficient and deadly killers. Oh, and how they laugh after killing their own kind (when Abe possesses them).
EDIT: Something I missed from AE is how Sligs would react to Abe when Abe used Gamespeak near them in AO - That would be nice to see carried across to Abe HD, it was a nice little touch.

Make it atmospheric as in original games

Please don't fuck up the atmosphere.

I also like the idea that some sligs might smoke cigarettes, from dev's view it's neither hard, nor much-time-consuming to make a model, two or three animations, a particle effect, and a few scripts, and the effect would be worth it

Ok, now my stuff:
-Remember the Guardian Angel, which never got into final game? You probably won't add him here, but that's not what I mean: As far as I remember you can see him in final game at some background... just keep him
-Please, pretty please (with a sugar on top), don't mess with difficulty! It should NOT be easier than AO, sure, you can add Quicksave feature, but let the player decide when he begins a new game if he wants or doesn't want to use it.
-This type of visior LINK > this type LINK, it fits sligs much more
-I don't really know how to describe it, but first two games have something I call "the step system" - it's basically the fact that everything there is based on steps: jumping is like 3 steps forward, jumping when running is like 4 steps... and you can't make like 1/2 of step, so it's possible to perform some action identically twice (you'll end up in exactly the same place, not e.g. 2pixels further)... it's awesome

[Bullet Magnet]

I'm not joking. Having Scrabs just bite at the air around your corpse with no indication they're actually eating you may work with a sprite-based 90's game, but not HD

It just sounded far too gratuitous for me. Gibbing has always been a part of Oddworld, but detailed disemboweling has not. When a slig's head or Abe's scalp bounced off the screen after an explosion or meat grinder mishap, that was funny. Seeing Abe's viscera spread out is not.

Sure, let the animals tear out chunks. But I don't want to come away from the experience feeling sick. I don't expect they'd get that far in anyway before the screen faded to black. Or before the body dissolved, if that's back.

[Varrok]

I would go for a golden mean here, too cartoony violence like in MO sucks and too realistic is not that great

[alluz]

I just hope the HD remake would not look like a child game..... funny gibs and slig shoots ''sleeping darts''........

[Crashpunk]

So yeah heres what I agree on.

-Don't ruin the atmosphere.
-Keep in original objects and dangers such as Mines, Bombs, Meat Grinders, Falling Meat keep in the orignal sounds! I wanna hear Abe's "BLAGH" when he dies or runs in a wall and the Slig's "FREEZE!" and Agreed with STM, keep in the slizzle when inhabitants die, Its most satisfying...in a odd way.

Okay heres my ideas
-I wanna see some neat little animations to Abe and Mudokons to add the there characters for example: Abe starts to pant if he runs to much, when he stops still, he puts his hands on his legs and tries to regain his breath and panicing if he is getting chased by a Scrab, whilst running, looking behind him time to time to see if its still there.

[Phylum]

Yeah, that sort of thing makes a game world really come to life. It would be great if you make AO an even more immersive experience.

[STM]

Well as long as we don't see Abe being torn to bits I'm good. Sekto you worry me.