The Force Awakens (and Star Wars more generally) [SPOILERS, OBVIOUSLY]

[Manco]

So I’m not long back from the theater so I can finally read this thread again, and I gotta say I really enjoyed it (the movie, though the thread is also nice). Couple of points to make:

Rey beating Ren seems a little overpowered, but on the way back from the theater I was talking with my friend who pointed out that Ren’s repeated thumping on his wound was him trying to keep his adrenaline going – he was clearly fucked up by Chewie’s blaster (notice how it sends everyone else it hits flying while Ren took it and stood firm? He had to absorb the full shock of that) and everything else that had happened.

I really liked Ren’s character, contrary to a lot of people I see talking about him on the internet. He’s pretty clearly got some issues living up to his grandfather, abandoning his family and old life, and the rivalry he has with Hux (which was a nice touch). It feels like there’s going to be a lot more to explore with him in future instalments, with his relationships with Hux, Rey, Finn and his parents all being touched on at some point. He’s an interesting antagonist.

I actually feel like the new characters got a really good look-in, especially Rey and Finn. They’re set up with interesting backstories, they’re given solid motivations, their have personalities (fuck you Qui-Gonn Stoic), and they do get some good development through the story. I’m interested to see where they go with them for the sequels.

The planets being blown up (was that Coruscant by the way?) did have some impact to me because it was said at the start how the Republic was backing the Resistance, and in Hux’s speech he focuses on talking down the Republic. It felt to me like the Republic was a major roadblock for the First Order, like they were being beaten back by the Resistance or that they couldn’t re-establish their governance while the Republic had power? It meant more than when Alderaan was destroyed anyway.

There’s so much more I could wax lyrical about like how I love how they used props and and cosmetics where they could instead of CGI everywhere or how they brought back the lived-in aesthetic instead of everything being immaculate or how BB-8 is so adorable or aaaa I just feel like they got so much right with this movie and it feels so good

The one thing I’ll say is that I don’t think they’ll get away with basing the plot so closely on another movie – it worked this time, but if Episode 8 is a retelling of Empire Strikes Back then it’ll fall flat. They need to bring a new story to the table for the next movie to work.

also what was with the red-eyed thing watching BB-8 when it set off into the desert at the start i mean seriously it never got mentioned again

[Phylum]

That red eyed thing was just there to make the scene more dense. Don't you know anything about film making?

I think they could have made it more obvious how Ren's wound was impacting his ability to fight. I think I already rambled about this here though so I won't get started again.

[Manco]

I think it works pretty well as it is – if it was made really obvious that he was injured and was fighting poorly then Rey beating him would have been more expected. It works because you don’t expect Rey to win when she does, but then you realize afterward that Ren wasn’t at his best. It also sets them up for another confrontation in the future, when they’re both at their best.

[Phylum]

The alternative was to set Rey up better as being really fucking powerful, and use that ending as the big moment when she believes in herself to unleash her power and kick Ren in the fanny. I mean that's kind of what happened anyway I think. They just didn't want to tell us anything about Rey because of suspense I guess. That and they're going to do a big reveal at the end of the second movie because that's what you do if you're making a successor to the original films.

I feel like I'm being such a dick whenever I talk about this movie, but I also really want to dissect it a bit and think about why that ending didn't do it for me in more detail.

[Manco]

We learn plenty about Rey over the course of the story, they just left the details of her family and her strong Force powers open for the sequels to explore. Which is pretty fair, I think if you answered every question about her in this movie she would end up pretty flat in the sequels.

I think the ending was probably unsatisfying for you because of how it’s more of an unresolved ending than the ending of A New Hope. There’s a lot more plot threads left deliberately unanswered because they have sequels planned, while ANH leaves almost everything neatly tied up but has just enough loose ends to pull through for Empire. People never really seem to enjoy cliffhanger endings very much.

[Phylum]

Well look, if you want to tell a story over 9-10+ hours without a major resolution or conflict point every 2-3 hours then write a TV series. Even then a major gripe I have with lots of series I watch, like OiTNB, is that they often lack episode structure. Cliffhangers are fine. Leaving questions at the end of a movie, if there's a sequel coming or not, is fine. An unsatisfying ending is an unsatisfying ending though. The ending of TFA is exciting, but it felt like they were doing even more setup rather than actually resolving anything.

They didn't need to tell us everything about Rey, just more. They could have developed her force powers while someone else was with her to dialogue with to give us more of an insight into what she was thinking and doing. As it stands I feel like there was a lot of suspense for the sake of the sequel.

[Manco]

Well look, if you want to tell a story over 9-10+ hours without a major resolution or conflict point every 2-3 hours then write a TV series.

I think you’re exaggerating now. There was plenty of conflict and resolution in TFA, you can’t ignore that just because some wider plot points weren’t wrapped up.

[Phylum]

I am exaggerating. I'm also writing very condensed posts.

I guess the thing is just that I wanted more from the end. There were lots of pieces there, but it just didn't feel satisfying to me in regards to the main character. It isn't even necessarily a bad thing, but it feels like it was just done for the sake of the next movie.

[OANST]

I thought it was a lot like Abram's other work. Pretty, filled with nostalgia, and lacking both emotional depth, and coherent story telling. It was better than the prequels, but inferior to the first two films, the first by a decently wide margin, the second by amounts of measurement not yet created because our minds cannot fathom its vastness.

Oh, and Rey is absolutely a Mary Sue. Overpowered as fuck in ways that make no sense.

[Varrok]

I like Revenge of The Sith much more. It actually has depth and character development. And the climax was pretty nice. It lacked Jar Jar, which is always good. It's got some left-over silliness from SW1 and 2, but it's less noticeable.

[OANST]

I do agree that it was probably the best of the prequels, and I honestly don't remember that much about it, but I do remember being embarrassed for everyone involved when the Frankenvader scene happened. But that's really the only scene I can remember off hand that was obviously just bad film making.

[Varrok]

I honestly think the final battle between Obi Wan and Anakin (and the defeat of Anakin) in RoTS was amazing.

And other scenes with McGregor (actor playing Obi Wan) in SW2 and 3 as well. McGregor is definitely the best thing about the prequels.

[Crashpunk]

Him and Ian McDiarmid too.

I just wish they did more with Obi-Wan in EP III. Everything about the General Grievous fight felt pointless to me.

McGregor is actually in talks to be in a Obi-Wan film and/or multiple films

[Jordan]

McGregor is actually in talks to be in a Obi-Wan film and/or multiple films

Oh god really? I thought the Han Solo film was gonna be pushing it a bit. This doesn't alleviate my concerns that this series will go the way of Marvel.

[Varrok]

Him and Ian McDiarmid too.

Oh, yes. That was too obvious to mention. Ian had great fun making the prequels.

Dewit

Did SW7 have such memorable lines? I can't quite remember any.

I just wish they did more with Obi-Wan in EP III. Everything about the General Grievous fight felt pointless to me.

Because it was pointless.

McGregor is actually in talks to be in a Obi-Wan film and/or multiple films

Nice

[Phylum]

I like the fight at the end of Ep 3 because I usually laugh through most of it. There are so many classic moments, like when Anakin runs into a flying kick on Obi-Wan and then Obi kicks him back. That's before it gets really dumb, too. Even when I was 9 and saw it in the cinema I thought it should have ended much sooner.

Does RoTS really have character development though? I mean, really?

[Varrok]

Yeah, a lot. It's basically centered around luring Anakin to the Dark Side. And it was done in a pretty convincing way, the movie dared to show Jedi from the bad side (never done in the original trilogy and I bet it won't be done in the nazi-empire fan-service trilogy) and made it understandable that Anakin decided to defect.

It's easy to hate on that movie, based on how SW1 and SW2 weren't that good, but I actually very liked it. Also, I believe being a 9 year old doesn't make you a good critic of... well... anything

[STM]

What about being a critic of hide and seek?

[Varrok]

Hide and seek is a game for true adults.

[Phylum]

At 9 years old I thought the most stupid and over the top lightsaber fight was stupid and over the top. It's a very valid criticism regardless of what age I first thought it.

[Nepsotic]

Yet lazer swords and space battles are totally not over the top.

[FrustratedAssassin]

This doesn't alleviate my concerns that this series will go the way of Marvel.

There can never be too much Marvel.

[Crashpunk]

Yet lazer swords and space battles are totally not over the top.

Yes of course. It's all sci-fi. But there's a big difference. You can have grounded, realist duels with emotion and you can have silly stunt show duels on top of lava. And that was the main reason the prequels weren't as good.

I'm in total agreement with EP3. The finale was like a video game level. It was long, over the top and actually boring. Not to mention the incredible dialog

"from my point of view the Jedi are evil" woo.

But it's worth it to get the end. When Obi-wan defeats Anakin, it's a great scene.

[OANST]

It comes down to suspension of disbelief, and at what point have you taken things too far. The prequels pulverize suspension of disbelief so often that it almost does a complete 360, and becomes believable again. Almost.

[Manco]

Episode 3 is the least worst, and that's not really an accolade of any sort. It's the mediocre finale to a shit trilogy.

[Varrok]

Manco's a mediocre finale

[Hobo]

I loved the new Star Wars. Except Harrison Ford's acting, he was pretty ballbags.

I loved that R2D2 decided to kill himself instead of spend any time in C3POs company.

I also think that working for the Dark Side R&D department must be the easiest job ever.

All in all:

Cheese/10.

[Crashpunk]

Really? I thought Harrison Ford did a pretty good job considering he hasn't played the character in a long frigging time.

I definitely wasn't expecting him to be one of the main leading characters at all, but I thought he was great.

[OANST]

You just broke Crashpunk's heart, Hobo. Your cruelty knows no bounds.

[Varrok]

I loved that R2D2 decided to kill himself instead of spend any time in C3POs company.

"Go into coma" would be more appropriate there.