Broaden OWF to other artistic games

[The Iconoclast]

well there goes that...and yeah...I didn't understand that....shows over folks...everyone go home

I don't know a thing about forum logistics...didn't think it was such a complicated matter. More importantly...I didn't realize you were the head honco here (no sarcasm). Maybe we could still do something about this if you explained some of this logistics business to me...about domain names and software and whatnot. If it's a reasonable price I suppose I'd be willing to pay. Maybe we could all chip in a little.

[Alcar]

well there goes that...and yeah...I didn't understand that....shows over folks...everyone go home

I don't know a thing about forum logistics...didn't think it was such a complicated matter. More importantly...I didn't realize you were the head honco here (no sarcasm). Maybe we could still do something about this if you explained some of this logistics business to me...about domain names and software and whatnot. If it's a reasonable price I suppose I'd be willing to pay. Maybe we could all chip in a little.

I didn't mean to shoot the entire idea down. The idea is a good one, and I can clearly see you're very passionate about it. I'm in the same boat as SeaRex - as long as it's separate from the OWF. I've spent a long time getting the forums to where they are now, albeit, not in the best of circumstances (OWI closing down, etc) and I am simply too attached to have it morph into anything but the Oddworld Forums.

As for the logistics, it basically comes down to:

• Quality Forum Software
• Server Hosting
• Domain Name

I think the biggest issue with that list is the quality forum software. I already pay for the Oddworld Forums server, and we have plenty of space and bandwidth available. Domain names cost between US$5 and US$15 a year, which is very cheap for your own spot on the Internet. Forum software... I would want it to be vBulletin, because I do believe it is the best out there. Invision Board is free, and would be the next logical choice, but I'd still loathe having anything to do with it.

Don't worry about the confusion over my position. Everyone seems to muddle it up. Abe Babe and I co-own the Oddworld Forums. We share the costs equally, and therefore share the ownership equally. While I don't want to discuss reasons for or against her not being present the majority of the time, I'm quite happy to be the only active Administrator - after all, Abe Babe also worked very hard to get the forums to where she wanted.

Alcar...

[Oddsville]

I can somewhat agree with Iconoclasts idea (I love art in video games, and love talking of it.) but it is a decision that needs to be made by all forumers on how or even if we will do this. It would be nice to talk of other games and the symbolisim they bring but it would have to be done in a way as to not destroy the last of the fabric that keeps this forum together.

It is a matter of should we first off more that what would we, and for this every active forumer should have a vote. Iconoclast, I know you'll be a great member but we cant just be rushing into this and having one person design this whole thing (even if thoughs were just you're brief *and I use that word lightly* thoughts); it needs to be a collaberated effort through everybodys ideas.

[The Iconoclast]

I feel like a jerk...I hadn't realized how much of your effort went into this and I feel sorry for suggesting its abandonment. It'd be like abandoning your own child. I think my idea is probably something best left to me...but...I wouldn't even know where to start. I don't know how to operate a website or anything. Maybe some day...but then it'll be too late...with the passion gone there'll be nothing. Kinda like what's here (or isn't) at Oddworld Forums. jk

[mitsur]

Meh, don't worry Icono. A lot of people probably don't realize the shitload of work and time it takes to keep this place up and running, despite the fact our numbers are alternatingly spiking and declining.

I'm not nutso about the idea, but it would probably kick-start this place up again, and make more people want to join.

And Snuzi, you might think I'm being a hypocrite for saying this, but it won't be the end of the world if we taper off a bit on the 'Oddworld' in 'Oddworld Forums'.

Anyways, I applaud Icono for at least being bold enough to make this suggestion, wheh he hasn't even passed the 20-post mark as of this typing.

[Alcar]

I think if anyone really wants this to ever fruitate, you should start off small. Discuss what name this new forum would be called. Decide what games will be talked about. Set the limitations on what qualifies as an 'artistic game'.

The technical stuff comes later.

Alcar...

[The Iconoclast]

i think i adressed ALL of that in my last big post...just out of curiosity...does anyone read them? some guy in the previous thread said he refused to read it because it was too long...it really makes u think

i really don't think anyone read my last big one where i adressed my total proposition...the only thing i didnt adress was logistics

i listed games...a name...a mantra and a very creative one at that which noone even mentioned or appreciated which leads me to believe that noone even read it

[Alcar]

I read most of that part, I was merely opening it up to all members, as a few others have been vocal, and I'm sure they have their own ideas as well.

Alcar...

[snuzi]

F you skillya_glowi and snuzi for being crazed d*ckless fanboys who probably forgot why you're here in the first place...of course maybe it's just me and my failure to understand this strictly monogomous relationship with oddworld...

This coming from the guy who has some crazed obsession with "artistic" games? Hypocrite.

I do know why I'm here. I'm here because I love the Oddworld series, and I wanted to be around other people who do. I wanted to be a part of a community that appreciated the series as much as I did. That's why I'm here.

Look, I can understand that that's probably the reason why you're making such a big deal about the games you want included in your little forum. I can also understand that you feel that most of them did not get the attention that they so rightfully deserve (I myself agree with you when it comes to Grim Fandango, as I felt it was a wonderful game and was not really given a chance by its audience). However, you have to understand that if you create this forum, you'll also have to include the games that your members view as "artistic", meaning that you'll probably be having discussions going about games that you do not feel fall into that classification. So then, you'll ahve two choices. One choice would be to allow it to go on, which would eventually turn your forum into just another gaming forum. Or, the other choice would be to, as I stated earlier, selfishly dedicate the forum to the games you enjoyed. Either way, I don't think it would really work. It would eventually collapse, in my opinion.

And Snuzi, you might think I'm being a hypocrite for saying this, but it won't be the end of the world if we taper off a bit on the 'Oddworld' in 'Oddworld Forums'..

It might not be the end of the world, but it sure would completely defeat the purpose of even having an Oddworld forum. After all, this domain is mainly dedicated to Oddworld. I'm fine with the idea of having a completely seperate forum made dedicated to Iconoclasts' games, as long as it doesn't coincide with this one.

i think i adressed ALL of that in my last big post...just out of curiosity...does anyone read them? some guy in the previous thread said he refused to read it because it was too long...it really makes u think

i really don't think anyone read my last big one where i adressed my total proposition...the only thing i didnt adress was logistics

i listed games...a name...a mantra and a very creative one at that which noone even mentioned or appreciated which leads me to believe that noone even read it

I read it. Although, most people ignore posts that are disorganized and have hardly any punctuation .

[used:)]

Oh please, you're all being such drama queens about it. Making a non oddworld addition to these forums wouldn't corrupt them. It would simply be an addition. Besides, with a game that has such artistic quality, it would be more like a compliment to the makers of Oddworld and the other games' makers which have such quality.

[The Iconoclast]

You do realize that when someone calls for a GENERAL CONSENSUS that he (that is to say I) plan to include their opinion (in this case their game choice) in the forum. If someone suggested Halo...I would hunt them down and beat them. Or if someone suggested something like...Shadow of the Collosus. I don't really care about that game. I don't have a PS2 and therefore I haven't played this game. From what I saw, it looked pretty damn interesting and original. I would permit it. It's fairly easy to do a bit of research on incoming suggestions.

Also...I'd just like to point out some things about games, forums, and shit in general. Let us do some comparative analysis. Take games like Morrowind or Halo 2. They have the characteristics fitting for a solitary forum (as in a forum dedicated to that game alone). Morrowind CONSTANTLY provides topics because it is the type of game that can PROVIDE constant topics. It has unlimited potential for character generation, thousands of quests, and lets not forget...a GAME EDITOR! This game gets add ons every couple of seconds! Halo 2...its mindless...its fun...its a shooter. It's contiuous stream of online play and consistent new releases/hype can easily keep a solitary forum going. These games are self fueling or evolving. They are in some way non linear. Of course non linear implies that there is a sacrifice in terms of artistic content/message. Though I listed Morrowind as a work of art...it's an achievement of a different sort. It opened up a vast new potential for freedom and whatnot. Anyway.
Now we come to games like Oddworld, Grim Fandango, Beyond Good and Evil, Psychonauts, etc. Try and avoid it as you might...these games are linear. Though you can play them more than once...you usually can't discuss them more than once. They tell a story from start to finish, introduce you to memorable characters. They're like books...or movies. They end. 1984 or The Grapes of Wrath doesn't have a forum. Harry Potter does. American beauty and Shawshank Redemption don't have forums. Instead, maybe there's a collective forum of meaningful movies for them. You just can't endlessly debate or discuss the same thing. BUt that's what defines our beloved games. They're a small slice of heaven...but that's the only quantity heaven comes in...small tangerine-like slices. (don't yell at me if any of the above works actually DO have forums...I just assumed they wouldnt)
My point is...a forum may not be the best form of expression for our love of Oddworld. Oddworld after all recieves a very special type of love. As do all the other great games we/I listed. There is a reason art has different media. You can't express the same thing in a book as you could in a movie. You can't express in music what you could in words. For everything, there is a season...turn, turn, turn...

Perhaps its time for us to turn?

used....i appreciate your support and all...but I think you might be a little confused. The change I propose would probably require a total reformatting of the website. It wouldn't just be Oddworld Forums and Friends. That would change nothing. The point of a comrpise is that you try to meet half way...you don't just pretend the other party is getting what they want and then you don't change anything. Like I said...It's all in my outline. It'll be art under the oddworld banner.

Another thing...we all have to ask ourselves. Do we like anything just for its own sake? Or do we like it because it stands for something or speaks to a certain part of us. Perhaps you guys do simply like Oddworld because you like Oddworld and not because it stands for originality, imagination, thought, deviation from norms, etc. Thats probably the most important question. Do we like Elum because he has horns, beady black eyes, and a face only a mother could love (in so many words...because he's Elum). Or do we like him because he's an original mode of interaction and speaks to our creative side? Thats the difference between say...mainstream sci fi and classic literature. The former we like simply for what it offers at face value. We like the ships and lasers and aliens. The latter we like because of its depth and appeal to the spirirt of humanity.

And here's number 20...so shut up guy who ragged on me because I didn't have 20 posts. It's not my fault that I felt alone in my love of Oddworld for so long and didn't think such a thing as these forums existed. Bitch...

HA! I'm a chippunk! That's so fitting. "Hey there ugly!"

[mitsur]

Used, you don't have to talk like everyone who dosen't want any additions is still living in the Stone Age. You'll probably insult me for saying this, but don't be so pissed off that we want something you don't.

And Snuzi, I've thought about this, and I think that we'll have to eventually expand if we want to ultimately keep OWF going, or else we'll join the long line of forums that were popular in their day, only to finally become silent when the interest in it's subject dried up.

Still, I'm kind of torn between expanding and staying stricly Oddworld. On one hand, we could receive many more members by expanding our games to discuss, but then we'd get people who would thrash the Oddworld areas apart, calling it an old, obsolete, or just downright shitty game.

On the other, we'll be running a serious risk of eventually becoming a graveyard. One series and company can only be interesting for so long, until it gets dull and people lose interest. I think that this generation of OWF members will be the last if we don't do something soon.

Then again, I could be spouting bullshit, as usual.

So, if we did expand, I'd perfer that we keep the two sections seperate, to protect the Oddworld part of this place.

Mega-edit:

First of all: Icono, there is an edit button for a reason, unless you deliberately posted three times just to bitch at my comment on your post count. Don't triple-post, or people will take you less seriously.

Second: Apparently, you didn't realize that my 20-post thingy was intended as a compliment. Even at 20 posts, you had enough balls to suggest that we don't stick completely with Oddworld. As I said before, I applaud you for having te courage to do that.

Third: Don't get pissed off because people don't see it the way you do. That's an easy way to get people to dislike you. Except if you're Hobo. Then people think you rule. Just state your thoughts and why you think them, and people will respect you.

Fourth: I lessthanthree (<3) Halo, Physconauts, but I hated Morrowind, as well as Oblivion. Sure, Oblivion was gorgeous in every way, from weapon design to enemy appearence, to textures, to NPC behavior, and almost all the little details, but overall both games were generally lacking in plot (OMG ANOTHER EVIL CULT WANTS TO BLOW UP TEH PLANET AND/OR BECOME A SUPREME GOD!!!11!1) Also, it got boing after you finished the main quest and got all the best stuff. Nothing was really a challenge after that. Plus, the Items you got for winning sucked ass. I mean, in Morrowind you got retarded ring and in Oblivion I can only remember kinda feeling bad for the king's son that he was dead. And sorry if I just spoiled the ending, but you kinda saw it coming.

I won't even delve into how Oblivion's 'final battle' was soul-crushingly dull. And the daedra god guy was remarkably easy to beat. I spent the whole game anticipating a huge, full-on insane battlefield where the god would be like an unstoppable juggernaut. What I got was a few soldiers fighting some clannfears, and a giant red leg. It was like a normal battle, except the guards weren't trying to kill me this time, and someone had left Godzilla's left leg in the middle of the road.

Halo 2's ending was better than Oblivion's, imo.

[used:)]

Used, you don't have to talk like everyone who dosen't want any additions is still living in the Stone Age. You'll probably insult me for saying this, but don't be so pissed off that we want something you don't.

I'm not talking like that though. I was just directing that bit at all the people going batshit over this proposition.

used....i appreciate your support and all...but I think you might be a little confused. The change I propose would probably require a total reformatting of the website. It wouldn't just be Oddworld Forums and Friends. That would change nothing. The point of a comrpise is that you try to meet half way...you don't just pretend the other party is getting what they want and then you don't change anything. Like I said...It's all in my outline. It'll be art under the oddworld banner.

Meh, same works either way in my mind.

[mitsur]

I'm not talking like that though. I was just directing that bit at all the people going batshit over this proposition.

Ah, I see now. I apologize about assuming that about you, like I usually do. I just usually take things at face value. Not to mention it's hard for me to get past first impressions.

Geez, I'm being a wimp today. Who says sorry these days?

[The Iconoclast]

That's it? After going away to play Baldur's Gate 2 for like 3 hours...these are all the posts that crop up? Cmon people...gimme something to work with! Mitsur...I rectified my comment about Morrowind being a technical wonder rather than truly art...and don't even mention Halo 2 in the same breath as good games. Fine...I spent many hot sweaty days sticking to my couch and having the time of my life on xbox live. But so what!?

Also...sorry about the lack of paragraphs. As for anything you might've found insulting, belive me I was only joking. That and it WAS nice to get a rank up. Sorry for misconstruing your intended meaning. I thought it was more like: "how dare you say anything with your pathetic sub 20 posts you little peanut vurm!!!!"

I understand your plight about being split between expanding and not...but really, I think my proposal eliminates the need to give up. If anything, it'll still just be us on the forum. Plus tons of other people on the other forums. At least it'll give us a breath of fresh air and a major possibility to get more people in here and excited about oddworld. And if anyone here says something like: Old school oddworld is the sophisticated man's super mario...we'll get nintendo freaks in here in no time. They'll all be like: What? You dare desacrate the holy name of mario? Fellow Nintendo freaks, gather the triforce and destroy this odd bitch!!!

Anyway. Alcar...buddy. I'm waiting on you. Not to mention everyone else. Cmon people. This is do or die time. If you linger this way...sooner or later...even the most dedicated will drop off. Maybe not in a week but in a month. If not in a month in 6. When Citizen Siege turns out to be a bust and a total piece of garbage sell out...what then?(hypothetically speaking...you guys know i always anticipate the worst from people....human beings don't have a very good track record with me)

Like I said...do or die time. it half past 2 in the morning over here...I'm bushed. Funny...I noticed that all the people that bashed me admitted to not having read my posts. That really says a lot about this so called community...and how desperately its clinging to the notion that it IS a community. Get real folks...smell the f-ing Folger's! I made my proposal...if we're all interested, Alcar and I could discuss logistics and whatnot...in fact, we could have a big group discussion...we'll talk in turn and EVERYTHING! Like the UN but more efficient. I was in the UN...I was not impressed. It was so hard not to fool around with the microphones...Anyway...just think about it people.

[Hobo]

Icono - If you need a glass prison to be recontructed you only have to ask

[Munch's Master]

I have a rather simple suggestion- we add a new subforum- Artistic Games, or something like that. An alternative to the broader spectrum of Non Oddworld Games. It'd accomodate Icono's lust for art in gaming, and would keep these forums as the Oddworld Forums. You might say it'd water down the forums a bit, but Oddworld Discussion isn't even the most active part of the forum anymore, so it'd not really make much difference in that aspect. And besides, once a new OI project is released, General Discussion will be active again.

[snuzi]

Anyway. Alcar...buddy. I'm waiting on you. Not to mention everyone else. Cmon people. This is do or die time. If you linger this way...sooner or later...even the most dedicated will drop off. Maybe not in a week but in a month. If not in a month in 6. When Citizen Siege turns out to be a bust and a total piece of garbage sell out...what then?(hypothetically speaking...you guys know i always anticipate the worst from people....human beings don't have a very good track record with me)

Well, now we know about what you think of Oddworld. You expect all of us to just simply give up on it, and you expect Citizen Seige to suck badly. Some fan you are, buddy. Way to show your so-called appreciation for "art" that is the Oddworld series.

Goddamn hypocrite.

[Xavier]

is vBulletin expencive?

I like the idea of starting an artistic games forum and make it sister with the OWF, but not to change this one. I'd love to see the members of this forum on another forum to discuss other games such as Shadow of the Colossus, Psychonauts, Beyond good and evil,... Plus attracting people who like those games to Oddworld woul be nice.

But I clearly dont want to see the OWF to be changed.


How do you decide what game is artistic?



EDIT: sorry didn't see the second page

[Hobo]

I like Xav's idea.

I've had some experience running forums, Icono if you want a hand give us a nudge.

[Rich]

I've had some experience running forums, Icono if you want a hand give us a nudge.

LOL!

Xav's idea FTW.

[Alcar]

This is do or die time. If you linger this way...sooner or later...even the most dedicated will drop off. Maybe not in a week but in a month. If not in a month in 6.

I no longer take any real notice when people predict the OWF's collapse. It's been predicted hundreds of times (I wish I was kidding) but we have always continued on.

is vBulletin expencive?

vBulletin costs US$160 to buy the software, and receive updates for one year. Beyond the first year, it costs US$30 per year to keep receiving updates and support.

As for the forum title, artistic games classifications, I'll leave that up to other people. One more thought though, what about the forum style? I'm not artistic in the slightest (outside of my imagination ).

Alcar...

[Hobo]

Forums styles arn't what people should be worrying about at this stage i feel. Name, forum software, hosts and such first Peter.

[Xavier]

IF this was done,... could it:
1) Be hosted on Odd.net??
2) Use Alcar's vBulletin's licence?

I mean if this is allowed, then the only problem would be to pay for the domain name.


PS:I think there is some space on TOL's server, but we don't have any vBulletin licence. And of cource Max has to agree.

[Arxryl]

Wow, this discussion came along since I went to bed...


Yeah, I know I'm basically just tweeking with my original thoughts and re-posting them here but...
As others have said, I'd like to maybe have a seperate sister forum to this one. We'd still have the forums that we all (mostly) have grown to know and love (mostly) and we would have room to grow and expand by having another forum.
Seeing as I don't have any kind of money right now, nor any forum building experience, I don't think I could help much in any way. (well, maybe designing a web page or somthing, but I still kinda suck at that right now...)

Anyways, there's my buck and a half. (what? the two cents thing is already being used.)

[SeaRex]

If anyone's worried about what games should qualify for such a forum, you could just make it easier on yourselves and let me choose all of them.

But seriously, I imagine that such a process would involve a forum-wide majority vote, which in turn could be vetoed by the administration if deemed inappropriate. However, a great starting point would be a forum for OWI/Lorne Lanning discussion, a forum for DoubleFine/Tim Schafer discussion, maybe a forum for whoever made "Fallout" (I'm trusting you guys on this one; I've personally never played it), and maybe a separate forum for, say, unique Japanese games with superior artistic direction, like "Shadow of the Colossus" and "Katamari."

Tenets for any games to be considered must include: unique gameplay, unparalleled art direction, and a general sense of "breaking the mold" in the gaming industry. And perhaps the game wasn't as well recognized as it should have been, "sleeper hit" or "cult classic" if you will. Unfortunately, I wouldn't consider games like The Elder Scrolls in this category, simply because they were so acclaimed and not nearly quirky as the OW and Psychonauts games.

As for a name... I don't know. "Cult Classic Gaming: A forum for the discerning gamer." Or something. I'm not good with names. XP

[The Iconoclast]

We could have a title like "Oddities, Art, and Kreation". The beauty of it is that our Acronym would be Oak...needless to say the Oak tree has billions of applicable symbols that it's associated with. Rebirth, growth, strength, etc. Our "flavor text" could be something like:
Through the light of Odd we are slain,
Shed our gray skins and rejoin the plain
Wreathed in beauty and fire to show
The resplendance of art the odd know

note that was from a previous huge post which i still feel noone read...i think it's a great title...if you don't like it i'll think of something new...i'm good with shit like that...surprisingly enough it wasn't totally self involved which is a change of pace for me...i suggest everyone who's even remotely interested read the post where i propose the title and the little poem...it's like you guys keep asking the same questions that i adressed fifty posts ago...i answered the title, i answered the parameters for artistic games (a council could determine it), and as for a domain name?..."oddshapedbox.com" (heart shaped box)..."oddlight.com"..."OAKforthefuture or OAKforthemasses.com" cmon people...this is good shit here

what the hell was so confusing about this title and motto? does noone like it? I explained it fairly well...it's not stupid...its well thought out and leads to totally awesome oppurtunities like O.A.K banners...and merchandise...and woot! this could turn into a whole business operation where we'd start having to face moral questions and battling four our own integrity!

Like I keep saying...this is NOT a god damn ADDON to OWF. Adding a new forum topic wouldn't attract anyone. it'd be the biggest waste of time since trying to explain to members of the clergy that there COULDN"T have been a 25 hour day as described in the bible

we need to project the image of our mission...and i thought the whole point was the our mission can't entirely be encompassed by oddworld

I will say one thing though...I too don't want to see this site end. Sure maybe it'll never have more than 30 members..but it's the fact that it exists that gives me hope. Also...snuzi, by the power vested in me I strip you of your right to speak and contribute (as if you've ever) in this forum! MAKE IT SO! Hoo-ah! jk

[skillya_glowi]

F you skillya_glowi and snuzi for being crazed d*ckless fanboys who probably forgot why you're here in the first place...of course maybe it's just me and my failure to understand this strictly monogomous relationship with oddworld...but the truth is...if you put some thought and CARE into this...you'd see how much the Oddworld community would benefit...you two and Moxco sound like you're 80 year insular men who can't concieve of any change and can't see past their noses...why don't you want to open up Oddworld to new people? If it hadn't been for an elementary school friend, I'd never have even known what oddworld was. Wow...this is like a lesson for myself as a pseudo philosopher. I should patiently and willingly share the light of my torch...too bad I don't have any patience

You know what? We're here. On the Oddworld forums. Judging by the name, I assume that it's for fans of Oddworld. My translation of a fan: Not someone who just thinks it's a great game series. Someone who singles it out from other games. Those games all have a decent number of fans/fan forums. This one is for Oddworld.
I don't care if you want to go off and start a new forum website for those games, though. So if that's what you want to do, because it's difficult to understand what you're saying what with those biblical posts, then be my guest.
And if you're gonna sit here insulting everyone who is really devoted to Oddworld and doesn't want to see a haven for Oddworld fans turn into half a haven for Oddworld fans and half a haven for other fans, well...the light of your torch is going to go out real quick, won't it?

[The Iconoclast]

Don't mold my double post into one...I use seperate posts to express seperate thoughts and messages. Please.

I'd just like to adress some people individually so we can better assess our desires, needs, and goals.

Arxryl- You said it best a few posts ago. This forum is a souvenir, a relic of a love that once burned passionately but is now just embers. It is something that strikes at your heart for a brief moment as you pass it by...but all you do is walk on and enjoy the dulled sense of pleasure of reminiscence. We wouldn't have to throw this souvenir away...but we can't live our odd life sitting in front of it forever.

SeaRex-Leave the titles to me. Cult Gaming? C'mon. That's so cliche and unoriginal. At least put a little thought into it. But that's ok, you're my DoubleFine guy. Hell even snuzi stuck up for grim fandango. This move would totally satisfy your double needs for fineness.

Snuzi- You miserable bastard. You should be exiled from our midst. All you do is take my posts, mutilate them and snip out bits to use against me. Why? Are you more concerne with fighting ME or upholding oddworld? Anyway, you don't deserve an adress...your idiocy is plainly seen from the clear dispairty between what I'm saying and what your attacks on me say.

Xavier-...ya know, I don't really know how to answer your question. lol

Max- You didn't really have any questions, but you did help me out in terms of establishing my platform. Woot. Now Imagine how much more moderating fun you could have with like 5 other game forums.

Alcar- 160 bucks doesn't sound so bad. I could do it. Thats about 13 hours at work...no biggy. Of course I don't think I should pay the full price...EH PEOPLE? Anyway. We could jsut keep OWF as a souvenir...because that's all it really is. Also...what kind of ressurgence are you expecting from Citizen Siege? If you think the same 30 memebers becoming more active qualifies as a ressurgence...well...that's you. Some idiots will probably make some kind of new Citizen Siege forum and go there...and they'll discuss Lorne's new stuff. They won't know about oddworld. But they will know Citizen. I could be wrong though. I haven't been here long enough to totally confirm that. So you tell me how shit really is.

Hobo- you sweet...filthy street urchin! jk. Awesome posts man...and I don't think I got your joke about the glass prison. I see you're fairly keen on my idea. I hope you'll be there when the big shit goes down! And yeah...here's my *nudge*.

Munch's Master- what you propose is doing abslutely nothing. We already have a forum for non odd games. Clearly it doesn't do shit. My proposal on the other hand makes a bit more sense. There's too much attention to oddworld here and not enough to anything else (which is understandable except for the part where you add on non oddworld stuff). The point is we need a new face and a new place.

Mitsur- stop aplogozing...jk...and you got me all wrong buddy...I'm not getting pissed at anyone for disagreeing with me...I get pissed when people don't read what I say and then disagree with me...

used- the truth is...I'm your...mother...I've spoken enough to you damnit

I think that's it...if i missed anyone, I'm sorry...but then again you probably weren't worth adressing anyway...

Just out of curiosity skillya...how long can you have a haven for games that last like 10 hours. I single out oddworld too...but there's only so much you can delve into with the series. Look...you can stay right here...with the same 15 people and talk about how abe is blue, teal, turquoise, or ****ing salad green for eternity. Or..we can have a whole movement. Get totally new people hooked on oddworld. Get new topics...new stuff. There's only a certain amount of times you can watch a movie...no matter how great it is.

I'm against organized religion if you don't get it...my favorite religion to bash (as it is anyone's who likes to bash religion): Christianity. From KGB type Jesuit orders and Crusades promising the same thing as we're yelling at suicide bombers for now? Not a great history eh? The only diff between christinaity now and then is that it was the government. it had its military and subjects at it's disposal. Now it just brainwashes for profit. But this has nothing to do with oddworld....although interesting, thoughtful topics should definetely be part of this hypothetical new forum. For example in the oddworld section...we could discuss environmental and human rights issues...in psychonauts we could discuss sociology and psychology
in fallout...um....North Korea and nukes...lol...and scientology (if anyone caught on to the hubologists in fallout 2...its clearly mocking L ron hubbard)

[skillya_glowi]

There's much more to Oddworld than just the games. And the games happen to last much more than 10 hours. If all you can do, by your words, is discuss Abe's skin coloration, then I wonder how we managed to keep on doing that for seven years?

And, look. I don't see anything wrong with getting people hooked on Oddworld. But we should be doing that with Oddworld, not the "If you liked _______, you'll love Oddworld" type of thing. It just doesn't produce the same effect. No one that I've babbled to about Oddworld, encircling my friends and family by that statement, no one that I've shown the art, the games, ever became a fan. I guess that you really have to go by yourself on this particular route.