Hopes for Soulstorm?

[Phylum]

I too always wonder why this is often given as an excuse for various aspects of AO and AE's design. Technical limitations on a 2D Sidescroller? I know they talk about memory being an issue for certain things, but other than that I doubt the PS1 had too much trouble running games like these.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm sure they had some big technical hurdles. I mean the entire game runs upscaled, and the assets are stored at half the vertical resolution so that they would fit on a CD. But people were making fast and slick games at the time of AO, there is no technical reason why they didn't do that.

[JayDee]

If you run off a ledge you will fall flat on your face/drop straight down. U dont run down a magical staircase. If you wanna talk about bad physics there is your example.

If you had forwards falling momentum in NnT then you could be even faster, Shade.

[UnderTheSun]

These were probably my 3 biggest problems with the game. They get brought up a lot and it seems like moaning, but it's probably a good thing that such easily fixable things are people's big problems.

Chalk up "falling-physics" onto the list.


Anyway, something tells me that the areas are going to look amazing in 3D. Imagine running past the gigantic bonemeal piles in Bonewerkz, except they're gradually shifting based on perspective. Or the labyrinthine Brewery. Heck, even the Mudomo/Mudanchee vault entrance chambers will look all the more barren.

That's something to look forward to.

[Shade667]

If you had forwards falling momentum in NnT then you could be even faster, Shade.

You're right. Im convinced.

[Scrabaniac]

I miss the good old days when falling from too high killed Abe. I think the lack of that made New 'n' Tasty too easy, even on hard mode. I pretty much skipped a lot of the temples by not dying from falling

[Shade667]

I miss the good old days when falling from too high killed Abe. I think the lack of that made New 'n' Tasty too easy, even on hard mode. I pretty much skipped a lot of the temples by not dying from falling

Theres not even that many instances where u can even fall from a height that looks like you can die.

i can think of like 5 places. Besides running off the top of an elevator (or whatever theyre called in the game).

[V_O_T]

Yeah death from falling was always a great thing. It made me want to reassess and take things carefully. Also the fizzle after death. I cant be the only one who loved that?

[Nicky Ali]

Well, call me a sicko all you want but I really want the overall sense of gore to have more of an impact in Soulstorm. In New 'n' Tasty when you die it always just feels like such a non-event, the classics just had more of a punch to them when you got killed. I don't think this is a case of me being a desensitised freak either because I still get a sense of shock from the classics to this day. I mean, the blood was barely visible in New 'n' Tasty too which leads me to believe that they purposely toned things down for a safer age-rating.

Matt Glanville talked about the player being like Abe's "Guardian Angel" at that EGX talk and I think that was a pretty good description. There should be more of an impact to deaths to actively make the player feel bad for messing up. I want to see Abe's bloody head fly off into the screen after stepping into a bone-drill. I want to see Abe get impaled by a Scrab - they can finally make good use of modern technology to properly show this in ways that weren't quite possible in the PS1 days. I want to be disgusted by this game. Is that a bit weird?

(And I totally get that not everyone has the same tastes so we won't find the same things to be "violent"; maybe to you New 'n' Tasty was too much of a gore-fest. It's a really iffy subject)

[Varrok]

Well, call me a sicko all you want but I really want the overall sense of gore to have more of an impact in this game. In New 'n' Tasty when you die it always just felt like such a non-event, the classics just had more of a punch to them when you got killed. I don't think this is a case of me being a desensitised freak either because I still get a sense of shock from the classics to this day. I mean, the blood was barely visible in New 'n' Tasty too which leads me to believe that they purposely toned things down for a safer age-rating.

Matt Glanville talked about the player being Abe's "Guardian Angel" at that EGX talk an I think that was a good description. There should be more of an impact to deaths to actively make the player feel bad for messing up. I want to see Abe's bloody head fly off into the screen after stepping into a bone-drill. I want to see Abe get impaled by a Scrab - they can finally make good use of the technology to properly show this in ways that weren't quite possible in the PS1 days. I want to be disgusted by this game. Is that a bit weird?

^^ This.

[Nepsotic]

Nicki Ali, you are obviously correct.

[DWeedMan]

I know they took away Mudokon baton beatings in Abe's Exoddus, but regardless can it please be as such that you can actually kill mudokons by beating them to death? Words cannot describe my disappointment on realising in NNT that they survived indefinitely, no matter how much you whacked their brains out.

This should be development priority no 1 IMO.

[Michael]

In New 'n' Tasty when you die it always just feels like such a non-event, the classics just had more of a punch to them when you got killed. I don't think this is a case of me being a desensitised freak either because I still get a sense of shock from the classics to this day

i was talking to a friend the other day about this exact issue, trying to conclude exactly what was so different in New n Tasty that makes the deaths less visceral. In the classics, death was unexpected and made me jump almost every time! Everything was so much more tense, and as much as it was down to player skill, there was still an element of just hoping that you'd make it through.

New n Tasty has the one hit kills, but still doesn't feel tense or frightening to me. Perhaps it's a combination of many small things that change the atmosphere. I think in part, it's due to the sound design with the death theme playing less sudden and loud. Also the visuals being more cartoon, so everything feels less real.

There's something to be said about low res pixel graphics, that they leave a lot more to the player's imagination to interpret details for themselves. Perhaps part of what made the gore so grotesque was actually our own interpretations of what was shown? This effect is lost on new high res games where everything is explicitly shown and there's little left to the individual's imagination- especially relevant to horror as it made games affect you more personally.

[Samtastic]

Yeah I think the hard mode should be as hard as it was from the original Abe. Instant death for falling would make the game feel just like the original.

[Manco]

i was talking to a friend the other day about this exact issue, trying to conclude exactly what was so different in New n Tasty that makes the deaths less visceral. In the classics, death was unexpected and made me jump almost every time! Everything was so much more tense, and as much as it was down to player skill, there was still an element of just hoping that you'd make it through.

A big part of that was that death was always instant. In NnT when a Slig shoots at Abe, there’s a slight delay before death since Abe has a health meter – even on hard mode, you won’t die immediately to everything.

The sound effects for each death were always VERY loud too. Gunshots, meat/bone saw grinding, mine explosions, electrocution, the thud of falling from a height etc were all way louder than anything else going on in the game.

Very sudden + very loud = high shock and high tension

[Gunnr]

Very sudden + very loud = high shock and high tension

I definatly agree with this

My Soulstorm hopes and expectaions

[Paul]

I know they took away Mudokon baton beatings in Abe's Exoddus, but regardless can it please be as such that you can actually kill mudokons by beating them to death? Words cannot describe my disappointment on realising in NNT that they survived indefinitely, no matter how much you whacked their brains out.

This should be development priority no 1 IMO.

I feel like I'm missing something here.. you've always been able to beat them to death in AO and AE.

[DWeedMan]

I feel like I'm missing something here.. you've always been able to beat them to death in AO and AE.

I'm likely misremembering whether or not mudokon whacking was in Exoddus, I haven't played it in a long while now. Of course in Oddysee (and Exoddus if it was in it as you claim) one was able to beat them to death, I just was (and still am) very disappointed one was not able to in NnT.

[Havoc]

I'm likely misremembering whether or not mudokon whacking was in Exoddus, I haven't played it in a long while now. Of course in Oddysee (and Exoddus if it was in it as you claim) one was able to beat them to death, I just was (and still am) very disappointed one was not able to in NnT.

I have to admit I never tried it in NnT, but if it was left out then that's pretty stupid.

[Varrok]

Sadly, I can confirm that

[Vlam]

Well, call me a sicko all you want but I really want the overall sense of gore to have more of an impact in Soulstorm. In New 'n' Tasty when you die it always just feels like such a non-event, the classics just had more of a punch to them when you got killed. I don't think this is a case of me being a desensitised freak either because I still get a sense of shock from the classics to this day. I mean, the blood was barely visible in New 'n' Tasty too which leads me to believe that they purposely toned things down for a safer age-rating.

Matt Glanville talked about the player being like Abe's "Guardian Angel" at that EGX talk and I think that was a pretty good description. There should be more of an impact to deaths to actively make the player feel bad for messing up. I want to see Abe's bloody head fly off into the screen after stepping into a bone-drill. I want to see Abe get impaled by a Scrab - they can finally make good use of modern technology to properly show this in ways that weren't quite possible in the PS1 days. I want to be disgusted by this game. Is that a bit weird?

(And I totally get that not everyone has the same tastes so we won't find the same things to be "violent"; maybe to you New 'n' Tasty was too much of a gore-fest. It's a really iffy subject)

It's understandable but one must keep in mind that Abe in NnT is similar to the one in MO (which explains a lot).

[Scrabaniac]

I would love to see procedurally generated AI.. For example, A Slig would become more alert when Mudokons go missing in it's patrol path, or if they spot Abe. I think it would add a nice difficulty to the game.

[Michael]

I would love to see procedurally generated AI.. For example, A Slig would become more alert when Mudokons go missing in it's patrol path, or if they spot Abe. I think it would add a nice difficulty to the game.

As cool as that would be, it could make certain areas unpredictable and could lead to problems with puzzles. I think it was this thread where we were talking about the puzzles needing to operate in a set way for them to work properly, so if you do the same action you expect the same result. I'm not sure that kind of variety would be best suited to a puzzle/timing oriented game.

On another note, I was thinking recently about how in New n Tasty, a few times when possessing a slig in the background, I tried to shoot at sligs in the foreground. After nothing happened, I realised that feature was only introduced in Exoddus and must've been left out (unless I completely missed it somehow!) I hope that returns in Soulstorm

[Connell]

As cool as that would be, it could make certain areas unpredictable and could lead to problems with puzzles. I think it was this thread where we were talking about the puzzles needing to operate in a set way for them to work properly, so if you do the same action you expect the same result. I'm not sure that kind of variety would be best suited to a puzzle/timing oriented game.

Well Lorne has been talking recently about how he wants each playthrough to feel "unique" to the point where each person playing has a different experience from the next to share. Sounds like they are going for a more unpredictable approach. He's also said that Soulstorm's puzzles will have multiple ways they can be solved.

[Scrabaniac]

I don't think having Procedural AI would impact puzzles if they were designed to fit around that purpose. I think that knowing gameplay will be different each time will add replay value to the game too

[Samtastic]

I would love to see procedurally generated AI.. For example, A Slig would become more alert when Mudokons go missing in it's patrol path, or if they spot Abe. I think it would add a nice difficulty to the game.

Metal Gear Solid style! Enemy sighted! Requesting backup unit! Then all the other Sligs come along and try to kill Abe.

[HansuOddie]

I wouldn't have minded the health system in New ´n´ Tasty TOO much if it wasn't the fact that Abe only said ouch and ran normally after being shot by a slig.

What I'd like to see is when Abe gets shot, he limps, or at least becomes slower. Like, imagine Abe being chased by some sligs and slogs, and when one of them shoots him, he starts to limp, becoming slower and an easier prey for the slogs. In order to protect himself, he would have to knock over something, like barrels. This would slow down whoever is chasing him (this wouldn't work on enemies such as Scarbs or Paramites tho). However I find it difficult to imagine a wounded Abe being able to jump onto a platform for safety, so maybe get to a lift/elevator?

[Scrabaniac]

I think that is is a bit too imaginitive.. as cool as it sounds, I don't think they would implement it. I'll just be happy if Abe made the classic "UGH!" sound when he is shot, rather than "AGHJIBBUHH" In new n' Tasty

[Varrok]

I'd totally be saying "Ouch!" when shot.

[Silver angel]

I prefer not to have health indicator at all. This is Oddworld's main gameplay base - found out how puzzle warks and do it right. One mistake and you are dead. This makes you feel fear like character you are playing. I do not think that someone would survive if released in him the whole clip from Slig weapon.

[Varrok]

I think Abe should be invincible and sligs should come and pat him on his back whenever he fails a puzzle saying: "Do not worry, we all know you did your best!"