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  #1  
06-02-2014, 11:26 AM
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Spirituality

Do you believe in ghosts? Spirits? Demons? Angels? The "Astral Plain", as some call it?

I'm sort of in between. Definitely skeptical to say the least. I mean, there's a lot of intriguing evidence in the world in favor of some "other realm"'s existence, but at the same time a lot of it could just be attributed to psychotic / schizophrenic problems in people. But that's what's so goddamn interesting, even if it is the byproduct of mental illness or something it just goes to show the extent of our imaginations.

I've been reading about Ouija boards a lot the past couple days. Interesting phenomena. I dunno if it's all psychological or if there actually is some mystical element to it (probably the former but hey who knows) but it's definitely a curiosity I want to explore a bit more. So I just made one out of cardboard and am about to find somewhere quiet in town to take it for a spin. I hope Zozo doesn't eat my soul.

Have you guys ever had any demonic, ghostly or other worldly experiences that you couldn't explain through science and logic? I don't think I have, but know many people who make claims of witnessing bizarre paranormal activity.
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  #2  
06-02-2014, 11:45 AM
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Spirituality is stupid. Fuck spirituality.
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  #3  
06-02-2014, 11:51 AM
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No. I may have once, but my mind has become too logical to believe in anything like that.
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  #4  
06-02-2014, 11:51 AM
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Heard a few claims from friends of mine. I tend to be torn between believing them as friends and disbelieving them because it sounds so unlikely.

Myself, I've had a few odd moments that feel slightly spiritual. Usually I pin it down as coincidence or something. It's frequently stuff like predicting something in dreams or just in thoughts, or having Deja Vu at random sights.
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  #5  
06-02-2014, 11:57 AM
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Unless you can say something will happen, before it happens, it's not clairvoyance. Having prophetic dreams that you realize after something has already happened is just fake memories.
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  #6  
06-02-2014, 12:36 PM
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Apparently the town I grew up in has loads of "paranormal" activities, ranging from dead firemen, orphan mill slaves, and one I found particularly fascinating, Ida Moore: the ghost of a 20 year old girl filled with sorrow due to unlived dreams of becoming a music teacher. So sad.

Yeah I'm not totally behind the existence of any forms of tangible spirituality, but I'm definitely open to the idea. I mostly think it's cool from a psychological standpoint, but can't help but wonder sometimes. Especially when certain parallels are drawn (such as continuous "paranormal" activity (bulbs shattering, weird footsteps, static, radios switching on and off, etc) between actual historic events and weird shit happening in that place. I dunno. Maybe I'm an idiot but I find this stuff fascinating.
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  #7  
06-02-2014, 12:40 PM
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I used to be a Catholic (lel) but some time around 2011-2012 I ended up an agnostic and from there it wasn't long before I 'became' an atheist. Subsequently, I don't believe in any sort of apparition, nor any afterlife or limbo. I do believe that there are probably immensely intelligent alien life forms out there somewhere that, upon contact, we might consider gods. I also believe however, that they are in no way involved with Earth.

Ectoplasm hoax photos are fucking awesomely cool though.
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Oh yeah, fair point. Maybe he was just tortured until he lost consciousness.

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  #8  
06-02-2014, 12:46 PM
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WHY DO YOU HATE GOD STM
from http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2528814/
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  #9  
06-02-2014, 12:49 PM
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I don't know what I believe anymore but I will say that governing religion is stupid and outdated in this day and age.

Oh and yeah obviously aliens exist. Only a complete moron would argue otherwise. But that's not really what this topic is about.
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Last edited by Mr. Bungle; 06-02-2014 at 12:51 PM..
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  #10  
06-02-2014, 12:52 PM
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:
WHY DO YOU HATE GOD STM
from http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2528814/
God's bead Baby, God's dead.

@Bungle - I agree, organised religion is a dangerous fucking thing.
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  #11  
06-02-2014, 12:52 PM
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God isn't dead, but I'll get that bastard some day.
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  #12  
06-02-2014, 12:57 PM
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Ooh I like what we're doing here.
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Oh yeah, fair point. Maybe he was just tortured until he lost consciousness.

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  #13  
06-02-2014, 12:57 PM
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Every kind of religion is dangerous. Blindly believing something which is improbable is dangerous. If any of these things were proven to be at least close to being truth, it wouldn't be a religion, it would be science.
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  #14  
06-02-2014, 01:02 PM
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It's all population control maaaaan!

well for the most part at least, I mean look at Christianity. I think many of the prime religious disciples are slowly accepting that the roots of their beliefs are bullshit though. they just like the themes and philosophy of it all.
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  #15  
06-02-2014, 01:03 PM
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I won't believe christian people are changing as long as this exists.
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  #16  
06-02-2014, 01:07 PM
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I didn't want this to be a Religion thread ;(
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  #17  
06-02-2014, 01:07 PM
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Nah, ghosts don't exist.
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  #18  
06-02-2014, 01:09 PM
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I didn't want this to be a Religion thread ;(
Well *I* didn't want to be saved by some guy who died on a cross for my sins despite me not existing, and knowing him at the time. And what?

Also, how is this even fair?
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  #19  
06-02-2014, 01:13 PM
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*de-lurks*

I've "seen" a couple of "ghosts" during separate events (and had people around me who saw the same things), but even I'm too cynical to believe they exist despite the fact that I can't explain what I saw. You've gotta be pretty naive to believe that.

Actually it sorta reminds me of this. People love to jump to conclusions when they can't explain stuff.
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  #20  
06-02-2014, 01:15 PM
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Replace each "Aliens" with "God"
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  #21  
06-02-2014, 01:20 PM
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Cynics and Scientists blame it on the aliens. Optimists and hippies blame it on spirits & ghosts.

Like I said, I'm somewhere in the between. I guess I just find the whole concept fun...
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  #22  
06-02-2014, 04:29 PM
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I think we've got five or six different definitions of the word "spirituality" running in tandem here in this thread.

Which brings me to my point: I've never heard the word "spirituality" used to describe the same thing by two different people. As words go it is utterly useless because it cannot be used to communicate the idea you have in your head to anyone else's with anything approaching reliability. We are travelling in a dark place. This is where language comes to die.


My views on religion and woo are well documented around here, I think. For the record: if ever I experience something that I cannot explain, I can put that down to either supernatural phenomena that I suddenly claim to be sufficiently qualified to recognise (presumably because not knowing what I'm looking at is considered to be a respected mark of expertise), or I can put it down to having insufficient data. I take the option that lets me use the word "data" in a sentence. That never gets old.
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  #23  
06-02-2014, 04:31 PM
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Ectoplasm hoax photos are fucking awesomely cool though.
Can you give some examples?
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  #24  
06-02-2014, 04:55 PM
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A more appropriate title for the thread would've been "Do you believe in ghosts?", I suppose. Failed to remember that spirituality to some people is just the act of religious worship.

So... Do you believe in ghosts? Spirits? Demons? Angels? The "Astral Plain", as some call it? [2]
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  #25  
06-02-2014, 05:24 PM
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It's not enough to invent ghosts. You then have to offer explanations for their rather more unusual features. And then substantiate those explanations, which will be difficult when the same cannot even be done for the original claims of their existence.

What unusual features? They reveal themselves as soon as you start to consider their nature and origins. How do they work? What are they? Where do they come from? So often they resemble human beings, we are told that they are the spirits of the dead. Okay. So how come there are spirits at all? Why do we not all leave ghosts like them? And why, why, why are we not inundated with trillions of them? There's nothing special about human beings. But we only ever see ghost humans. Some people claim to witness ghost animals, but they are always domestic animals. Nothing older than modern recorded history. No cavemen, for example. What's up with that? No lizards, either. No mammoths. No anomalocarids. No plankton. The oceans should surely be a veritable ectoplasmic soup of the things. And we know that spirits cannot be confined just humans (and there's no reason why they should even look like humans, there's nothing special about the meat of an arm that should be ethereally preserved), because ghosts are also always wearing clothes. Ghost clothes. The ghosts of the clothes they were wearing, which in some cases may still exist and be perfectly functional. How did these clothes leave spiritual essences? If I found and wore them, might my ghost be wearing the very same clothes as another ghost? Can we duplicate ghost clothes like this? And do ghosts always look like the way they did when they died, or other periods? If inanimate objects can have multiple ghosts, can people too? I'm not the same entity I was as a child, my atoms are all different, my mind is massively changed, I don't even look the same. Could my earlier self have left a ghost already? Are we all walking around leaving ghosts of those moments, every single living thing that ever existed? Again, why are we not buried under ghosts? How many infectious diseases impotently haunt the site of their defeat like soldiers at their last battlefield?

The fact is, the only types of ghosts people ever claim to see are the types from our stories. Our culture is rife with very strong narratives we tell each other, and they are so strong that they affect our very experience of the world. The ghosts we see are as we expect them to be, right down to their period clothing. Never anything unusual or unique that we expect from real people. UFOs are the same: the modern narrative is alien space ships (as opposed to the gods and demons of our culture's past). Each our unlikely for many reasons, some of them the same reasons, and some of them at opposite ends of the scale. Alien ships are unlikely because of the size of the universe and the distance they would have had to come. Ghosts are unlikely because they are so provincial and arbitrary. Again, narrative. No one ever talks about witnessing dinosaur ghosts, and even if they did, they would have only looked the way they thought dinosaurs looked, not the way they really did, and we are still learning. Similarly, unidentified lights in the sky are always alien ships or angelic beings, never phantom pterodactyls still haunting a very different and much older world.

So really: what gives? Because even if they are real, the universe as we now understand it is just so much bigger than us, yet these ghost phenomena, which if real would be scientifically revolutionary, seem to be targeted in design and nature to be the sorts of things that ordinary people care about, which is utterly unlike everything real that we have ever discovered. This is very suspicious. It's exactly as you'd expect if they were pure human fabrications.
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  #26  
06-02-2014, 05:29 PM
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:
Can you give some examples?





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  #27  
06-02-2014, 05:59 PM
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That just looks like people puking...
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  #28  
06-02-2014, 06:05 PM
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BM really really doesn't understand this belief thing.
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  #29  
06-02-2014, 06:23 PM
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I understand it. I don't appreciate it. Phantom phytoplankton would be interesting, but no one's beliefs are interesting enough to accommodate it. People are just boring that way.
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  #30  
06-02-2014, 10:36 PM
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I grew up in a haunted ass house and idgaf if it's ghosts or shit from another dimension was leaking in and affecting the house or what was going on but that and the fucked up dreams related to that house is enough to make me think "supernatural" shit exists.

However, I also think like all things there's got to be some kind of science behind it so it's not complete bullshit unexplainable occurrences but I have absolutely no desire to ever figure it out because fuck that noise

Things like angels and demons though are definitely creatures someone shit out of their brain once that got really popular. Like Klingons, except insanely OP.

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