An Oddworld game with a female protagonist?

[Connell]

It only really occurred to me recently how there are basically no female characters in the Oddworld series. I know their role in the narrative is mainly to reproduce etc., but do you think there could ever be an Oddworld game with a female lead character? I think it fits the Oddworld game design quite well in a very basic way; an outsider kind of character triumphing in some way. Also, given the current climate of movies featuring strong female leads (E.G Star Wars) would the time be right? Or do you think it could face possible backlash for just being a "Mary Sue" type of affair that some seem to brand this media. (Not myself - and for the record I loved TFA)

Your thoughts?

(Also please note I don't mean from a financial standpoint, or where OWI are at this point in time with their company, I.E I know it's not feasible for them to be bringing out new IP, just theoretically if they could.)

[Nepsotic]

I don't think it matters. There have always been games with strong female protagonists just as there have always been films with strong female protagonists.

Females on Oddworld seem to have a much higher rank and be much rarer, (Maggie and even Sam technically) so it makes sense why you don't play as them. Oddworld has shitloads of superspecies.

[Connell]

I don't think it matters. There have always been games with strong female protagonists just as there have always been films with strong female protagonists.

Females on Oddworld seem to have a much higher rank and be much rarer, (Maggie and even Sam technically) so it makes sense why you don't play as them. Oddworld has shitloads of superspecies.

I completely agree - I think if a narrative calls for a female, it should have a female character. If it calls for a male, same. Story comes first, rather than shoehorning in a male or female to appease an audience. Playing devil's advocate in my first post, you'd be surprised how much backlash people give things these days.

I was imagining more along the lines of an "underdog" female character as oppose to these high-ranking ones, or perhaps a high-ranker that refutes their responsibility. Sounds quite shite and generic when you say it like that, but I'm sure if OWI had the story to tell, they'd do it.

[Nate]

I always liked the fanon stating that Stranger is a female character, given she's pretty small for a Steef and doesn't have horns.

[FennecFyre]

I certainly wouldn't mind seeing a female protag of some kind (maybe Grubb or Clakker) but I would die inside if they made one just to pander to SJWs. Like you said Connell, the character should fit the narrative.

E: And I think if they did make a female protagonist, they'd probably be able to avoid making them a Sue. I feel like a lot of authors tend to paint their heroines as flawless ultra-badasses, but to be honest, I love characters with flaws that have to struggle and better themselves. And there's not a single Oddworld character that doesn't have flaws and struggles.

[kjjcarpenter]

I feel like a lot of authors tend to paint their heroines as flawless ultra-badasses, but to be honest, I love characters with flaws that have to struggle and better themselves.

The Lady Jessica was an incredibly flawed character and an ultra-badass. She's great. I mean, all of Herbert's characters were flawed, which is one of the reasons why his stories still resonate brightly, but she always stood out to me as something special; something elusive and altogether untrustworthy. Great character.

As for a female lead in Oddworld: If it makes sense for the story, just don't shoehorn one in.

As we move forward into the 21st Century, we're seeing an irksome trend of politically correct zest in literature and entertainment. Idris Elba being cast as the Arthurian gunslinger, Roland Deschain, has been perceived by many as the studio's attempt to needlessly racially diversify the main cast—which makes utterly no sense, considering there is a main character who is both negro and a woman in the second book. I'd have to agree that it's a rather bizarre decision, probably motivated by some market analyst who is just checking all the boxes to make sure they don't enrage any political fringe groups.

I'd hate to see Oddworld suffer the same treatment.

[Nepsotic]

oh god how did you forget the ghostbusters reboot

oh

god

[kjjcarpenter]

oh god how did you forget the ghostbusters reboot

oh

god

Man, I'm not even a huge fan of the Ghostbusters' franchise, but that trailer ... That trailer ...

[FennecFyre]

oh god how did you forget the ghostbusters reboot

oh

god

-hisssss-

I'm not a big ghostbusters fan either but HISSSSSSS. Like what even was the point of the reboot?

[moxco]

Hmm this is an interesting point. Most species on Oddworld are supposed to be sexless, yet are portrayed by male voice actors (Lorne) anyway. There's no concievable reason why a mudokon or glukkon couldn't be voiced by an actress, yet I feel that would be feminsing them in a way that would be inconsistent with the way those races have been hitherto portrayed.

I think the best option for introducing a feminine lead would be to introduce a new race exclusively voiced by women.

[Nepsotic]

-hisssss-

I'm not a big ghostbusters fan either but HISSSSSSS. Like what even was the point of the reboot?

Pander to political correctness

[V_O_T]

I think it would be great to have a femal inhabitant protagonist. In a hypothetical view, let's say a female Mudokon who does exactly what Abe does, my only request for this is that she is treated the same as Abe was in the game. In other words, showing that their world is harsh for all, no matter the gender/species/race.

I'm even down for robotic female shrinks if we ever get to see more of them in the future. It's like Oddworld made Glados before valve...did... Nah I'm not putting on my tin foil hat today.

[Nepsotic]

Yes because OWI were the first people to do rogue evil AIs.

[Manco]

Personally, I don’t think Oddworld is a series where gender matters so much to the story. The species of Oddworld are so diverse that there’d be no reason not to have a female protagonist, but she’d be dealing with the same themes of environmentalism and anti-corporatism that every other protagonist has dealt with. I really wouldn’t mind either way.

I don't think it matters. There have always been games with strong female protagonists just as there have always been films with strong female protagonists.

Eh, that’s true in the sense that movies and games have both struggled with an imbalance in the ratio of male:female protagonists. Things are slowly improving in both industries but they’ve historically been male-dominated.

Females on Oddworld seem to have a much higher rank and be much rarer, (Maggie and even Sam technically) so it makes sense why you don't play as them. Oddworld has shitloads of superspecies.

But within Oddworld’s eusocial species there’s nothing to suggest the “drones” are exclusively male in any species – we know Mudokons at least are basically genderless, and I remember Will mentioning a while back that they could theoretically express themselves as they liked.

Also, not all species are eusocial – Clakkerz, Grubbs and Outlaws all appear to have a male/female split, and I wouldn’t be too surprised if Gabbits and Steef do too. Vykkers are all hermaphrodites.

I completely agree - I think if a narrative calls for a female, it should have a female character. If it calls for a male, same. Story comes first, rather than shoehorning in a male or female to appease an audience. Playing devil's advocate in my first post, you'd be surprised how much backlash people give things these days.

As for a female lead in Oddworld: If it makes sense for the story, just don't shoehorn one in.

As we move forward into the 21st Century, we're seeing an irksome trend of politically correct zest in literature and entertainment. Idris Elba being cast as the Arthurian gunslinger, Roland Deschain, has been perceived by many as the studio's attempt to needlessly racially diversify the main cast—which makes utterly no sense, considering there is a main character who is both negro and a woman in the second book. I'd have to agree that it's a rather bizarre decision, probably motivated by some market analyst who is just checking all the boxes to make sure they don't enrage any political fringe groups.

Responding to both of these posts as they both embody a similar point: I take a different view, which is that unless there is a specific requirement for a character to have a certain profile, there’s no real reason not to have more diverse portrayals in fiction.

As an example, consider the point about Idris Elba playing Roland Deschain – is there a real reason why he shouldn’t play that part, besides Deschain being white in the books?

It’s important to have more gender, racial and cultural diversity in media, so I can’t say I personally see a problem with the growing trend in modern media.

I was imagining more along the lines of an "underdog" female character as oppose to these high-ranking ones, or perhaps a high-ranker that refutes their responsibility. Sounds quite shite and generic when you say it like that, but I'm sure if OWI had the story to tell, they'd do it.

I think it would be theoretically interesting to see a story from the perspective of a queen-type character, but I can’t see it translating well into an engaging plot – the concept art we’ve seen of queens suggests they’re huge and rather immobile, so any story based around them would be pretty slow-moving.

Hmm this is an interesting point. Most species on Oddworld are supposed to be sexless, yet are portrayed by male voice actors (Lorne) anyway. There's no concievable reason why a mudokon or glukkon couldn't be voiced by an actress, yet I feel that would be feminsing them in a way that would be inconsistent with the way those races have been hitherto portrayed.

I think the best option for introducing a feminine lead would be to introduce a new race exclusively voiced by women.

I’m fairly sure some of the Mudokons in NnT were voiced by women. No reason why that couldn’t continue with other species, and introducing some feminine portrayals – I can already picture female-expressing Glukkons power dressing.

[Nepsotic]

It’s important to have more gender, racial and cultural diversity in media

Perhaps, but just because there isn't as much in the mainstream media doesn't mean there isn't at all. There's a whole genre of black guy hood comedy, for example.

It's up to the creators what they want to put in their work, we have no business going in and demanding more diversity.

I can already picture female-expressing Glukkons power dressing.

That would be super cool actually.

[V_O_T]

Yes because OWI were the first people to do rogue evil AIs.

Not saying they were lol, but there could be a nice comparison to the two. Or if OWI did their own take on that type of theme, it would work.

[Manco]

Perhaps, but just because there isn't as much in the mainstream media doesn't mean there isn't at all. There's a whole genre of black guy hood comedy, for example.

I’m sure there is more diversity outside of the mainstream, but mainstream media is by far the most visible and has the most cultural impact. So it’s important that it’s as diverse as possible.

It's up to the creators what they want to put in their work, we have no business going in and demanding more diversity.

Creators are free to make what they like but they need to understand that what they make has an impact on the culture we live in. If things are stagnating then consumers do have a right to demand more diversity in what gets made, because of the impact it has.

[moxco]

No reason why that couldn’t continue with other species, and introducing some feminine portrayals – I can already picture female-expressing Glukkons power dressing.

idk, wouldn't that be sexualising sexless workers?

[Fatherbrain30]

This thread is gonna go places.

Not good places.

But places.

[Xorlidyr]

Steef is female.

[kjjcarpenter]

Responding to both of these posts as they both embody a similar point: I take a different view, which is that unless there is a specific requirement for a character to have a certain profile, there’s no real reason not to have more diverse portrayals in fiction.

As an example, consider the point about Idris Elba playing Roland Deschain – is there a real reason why he shouldn’t play that part, besides Deschain being white in the books?

It’s important to have more gender, racial and cultural diversity in media, so I can’t say I personally see a problem with the growing trend in modern media.

It makes about as much sense as portraying Roland as a female, honestly.

Ignoring the obvious genealogical points—that Roland is a direct descendent of King Arthur; has "blue, bombardier eyes"—there are some very strong racial themes once Susannah enters the story, which are completely butchered by making him black. There's also the glaring fact that Roland is supposed to look like Stephen King's father, as there series crosses over into our reality in the final few books, and Roland actually meets Stephen King. This has several connotations, namely that King created him, and thus it follows that there's a piece of him inside of Roland. Sure, they can make Stephen King black as well, but it still resonates as a bizarre choice.

Of course, there are many more reasons, though most are contextual, and a few of them sentimental, so I'll leave it there.

I absolutely support diversity in a cast of characters—LOST handled it very well, and it was the first Television show to portray a foreign, hour-long story via subtitles—but I digress when it comes to adding unnecessary flavour.

Somewhat related: One of the biggest rules that is ignored in Fantasy literature is not to add unnecessary races to the story unless they play an integral role. Many authors think they can make their world expansive and a special little snowflake by slipping in elves, and dwarves, and pixie people, but unless there's a reason for them to be there, it often reads as stale.

Oddworld handles this fantastically, however, as all of the characters are exaggerated stereotypes and metaphors unto themselves. I think that in itself is a core reason why most of the characters are drones; they represent everyone, both male and female alike.

Ergo, to restate my original point: If it's necessary to the story.

(Kind of a hodgepodge of an essay. I'm on the iPad and lost the long post I originally had written, so I apologise for the quality of prose.)

[Nepsotic]

Yeah to be honest the only thing remotely male about Mudokons is (some of) the voices.
By the way, would you class Oddworld as fantasy?

[STM]

I thought it's science fantasy, I mean it's basically a planet far far away, inhabited by aliens.

In regards to the topic, there's no reason why women can't voice characters, or why there can't be female expressing characters. If you look at many super queen species, the workers are all female and vastly outnumber the few male drones. To be honest, you wouldn't even have to make a female character model because for all we know they look relatively the same; perhaps just give them a female voice and minor adjustments such as a higher BFP and a lower height. Then again it's Oddworld so who knows.

The one species I think there's no point having female characters is the glukkons. I think it works well having it like a 'boys club' when really it's a bunch of doting sons actually controlled by an angry maternal figure.

[kjjcarpenter]

By the way, would you class Oddworld as fantasy?

Good question! Short answer (because this could probably be a thread on its own): If I painted with a broad brush, I'd definitely classify it as Fantasy, though I'd be more inclined to say Dystopian than anything else. Dystopian, with Fantasy elements—such as the heavy focus on mysticism—overlaid with a Science-Fiction coat of paint, which would be the weakest classification if you asked me.

EDIT: What about this? A Dystopian story of Fantasy (Nature) vs. Science-Fiction (Industrialists).

[STM]

A story isn't necessarily dystopian fiction just because it has themes of oppression and so on and so forth, you could say The Jungle is dystopian fiction by that stretch of thought. I'd say it has dystopian themes, but remains steadfastly somewhere within the broader spectrum of fantasy.

[kjjcarpenter]

A story isn't necessarily dystopian fiction just because it has themes of oppression and so on and so forth, you could say The Jungle is dystopian fiction by that stretch of thought. I'd say it has dystopian themes, but remains steadfastly somewhere within the broader spectrum of fantasy.

Nor is a story Science-Fiction merely because it takes place on another planet with aliens. The thematic resonance of a story is more important, and far more vital, than a superficial coat of paint.

Oddworld is obviously an amalgamation of genres anyway, so the point is moot.

[STM]

But science fiction is an umbrella genre, with a vast number of sub-genres within it. According to Wikipedia (lol), dystopian fiction is actually a subset of sci-fi. Honestly it's hard to pin down just because...yeah you said it, it's more than any one genre. It's just Oddworld.

[Crashpunk]

Oddworld a bit unique really. But I've always classed Oddworld as more of a Sci-Fi rather then a Fantasy. There's technology in Oddworld which defiantly fit the genre and the whole franchise is centered around alien species. But yeah like what people have said. It's like a mix of loads of stuff.

Anyway. I dunno. Female protagonists are all the range now. And I don't really see Oddworld doing it without it sounding painfully obvious that they're doing it to please those sort of people.

Oddworld isn't about gender. It's about the bigger picture of all species and the world being destroyed by greedy industrials. In terms of Lore. (as far as we know) Females aren't that common and are mostly queens.

I think Gender might be brought up in the future, but not in a huge way. Again, we know there are Queens for the Mudokons, Glukkons and Sligs and we might eventually see them. But I don't think the fact the queens are female will be a massive talking point.
It'll be more along of the lines of "This is the queen of our people" not "oh my gosh a female"

Look. I'm not super against females in Oddworld. I really do think the Queens could be some of the most interesting characters in the games and I really would love to see them. I just don't think a female lead could really add anything. People don't care that Abe and Munch sound like Males. it's a non issue in my opinion.

Also I've always imagined the Glukkon Queen having this voice and that sound hilarious to me.

[Holy Sock]

Yeah, I don't think it matters. If Munch was a female would it have been much different beside a female voice? I guess since his story involves Gabbiar then perhaps there's a different angle that could have been taken with a female Munch but if Squeek or a future protagonist is female I don't see why it would be a problem or be considered appeasing a certain demographic.

The whole superspecies/queen/matriarch element to the series seems like a very specific thing which doesn't mean we cannot incidentally have a female protagonist. If it's a young queen I suppose gender would play an important role but it could easily be a creature that just happens to be female. Like Munch just happens to be male.

[Manco]

It makes about as much sense as portraying Roland as a female, honestly.

Ignoring the obvious genealogical points—that Roland is a direct descendent of King Arthur; has "blue, bombardier eyes"—there are some very strong racial themes once Susannah enters the story, which are completely butchered by making him black. There's also the glaring fact that Roland is supposed to look like Stephen King's father, as there series crosses over into our reality in the final few books, and Roland actually meets Stephen King. This has several connotations, namely that King created him, and thus it follows that there's a piece of him inside of Roland. Sure, they can make Stephen King black as well, but it still resonates as a bizarre choice.

OK, I can see where you’re coming from with some of those points and I’m not familiar enough with King’s books to say how much of an effect it would have on the larger story. But theoretically, do you think it’s impossible they could rewrite the racial themes to suit the character changes? And would it be impossible for Stephen King’s father to be portrayed as black, or simply leave out the similarity?

And on a side note, would it matter in any real way if Roland was female? Or how about any leading male character in a story – most are white males but could easily be swapped out for women or other races.

Somewhat related: One of the biggest rules that is ignored in Fantasy literature is not to add unnecessary races to the story unless they play an integral role. Many authors think they can make their world expansive and a special little snowflake by slipping in elves, and dwarves, and pixie people, but unless there's a reason for them to be there, it often reads as stale.

I can see what you mean and I agree to an extent, but comparing women and ethnic groups to fantasy races doesn’t quite add up – for one thing, women and ethnic groups do make up a large proportion of humanity, and their inclusion in a story doesn’t have to be as a separate group as elves or dwarves would be; for another, you’re never going to have a cinema audience of elves or dwarves looking to see themselves represented in fiction, but real-world minority groups do get fed up of seeing white people all over fiction.